Hour meter operation??

[gwdixon]

A difference of opinion has been raised about how hour meters record the hours. Is it:

(A) actual clock hours that the engine is running or is it

(B) based on a hours at a certain RPM called a Tach Timer?

Could there be a (C)?

In the RPM/Tach Timer logging situation, for example, if 3000 RPM is registered as 3 hours then the same 3 hours on an identical tractor sitting side-by-side idling at 1000 RPM would only register 1 hour on the meter.

What has been your experience? Tractor brand, model, and approximate year of manufacture would also help.

Some background is below.

In Minnesota it would be illegal to have an hour meter that does not reflect clock hours.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=325E.166

There is a Hobbs-type meter that measures "on" time:

Hobbs meter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and a Tach Timer:

Tach Timer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then there is this post from Net Tractor Talk:

"My local Kubota dealer said the new Kubota hour meter read with the key on, while many older tractors/equipment hour meters were set to register at or near operating rpms. My snow cats seem to register hours much slower than my new Kubota. This info came to light when I had to delay my hydraulic oil change for lack of parts. The dealer said with the newer hour meters they tend to show more operating hours than older style hour meters on equipment and to not worry about the extra 10 hours of use on the break in hydraulic oil in the L39."

It appears that different brands, ages, and models of tractor could have a very different functioning of the hour meter. Your insights would be appreciated and may save a life or two.

 

[sld]

The mid 80's 10 series Fords have a statement in the owner's manual that says hours are 1 to 1 at 2000 rpms. Below that the clock is slower and above that the clock is faster compared to real time.

 

[Verticaltrx]

As I posted in another thread, Mechanical hour meters base one hour of run time on a specific RPM, usually PTO speed or rated RPM. Generally older tractors have these, such as my Ford Jubilee (NAA). Newer tractors have electronic hour meters and as far as I know all of them record hours run based on the key being on (or the engine electrical system running), and it doesn't matter what RPM the engine is/has been run at.

 

[tractorski]

my last tractor's(2006 Branson 3510) hour meter ran at operating rpms, my new massey is if the key is on.

 

[Opti-Mist]

Typically things change over time. With the old mechanically driven proofmeters, hours accumulated at a rate of the manufacturers choosing. In the case of Ford hours accumulated 1:1 at 1600 rpm at a point in time. Apparently that changed over time as well. Deere was 1:1 at 2000 rpm at a point in time, could also have changed over time. Interestingly, none of these relate to pto speed.

 

[Diamondpilot]

The mid 80's 10 series Fords have a statement in the owner's manual that says hours are 1 to 1 at 2000 rpms. Below that the clock is slower and above that the clock is faster compared to real time.

That is how both my tractors work. My 1960's Ford 861 is at one RPM and my 2003 Jinma 254/284 is at another. I really do not worry about it. I have beer to drink and women to chase. Neither one have a thing to do with the key being on or off other than starting the engine...

Chris

 

[gwdixon]

Great wealth of knowledge in just over an hour!

Probably the "beer to drink and women to chase" puts the question in the proper perspective.

Hopefully there will be more information on this topic as others spot it. Thanks to all who have posted.

 

[Bird]

My 1995 Kubota B7100 had what you're calling a Hobbs Meter; just an electric clock that ran anytime the key was on, whether or not the engine was running.

Then my 1999 Kubota B2710 had the Tach Timer; registered one hour if the engine was running at PTO speed, less time if the engine was running slower.

I have no idea how they decide which type to use in which models.

 

[Soundguy]

I'm not sure what you are looking for.. you have described both the electric 'clock' style meter and the rpm based mechanical meter.

My farm cuv ( galf cart looking thing ) has an electric clock. I can turn the key to the first click to the cig lighter adapter is powered, and the clock comes on.. if i let it set there an hour, then the clock accrues an hour even though the machine is not running. On the other hand, my old ford 660 with proof meter, it mesures hours at a certain rpm.. if you run at half that rpm, it registers half the time.. etc.

both have merit, depending on what you are doing. I have seen companies that run both and use the numbers for different things. IE.. rental based on clock time, and servicing based on tach time..

soundguy

A difference of opinion has been raised about how hour meters record the hours. Is it:

(A) actual clock hours that the engine is running or is it

(B) based on a hours at a certain RPM called a Tach Timer?

Could there be a (C)?

In the RPM/Tach Timer logging situation, for example, if 3000 RPM is registered as 3 hours then the same 3 hours on an identical tractor sitting side-by-side idling at 1000 RPM would only register 1 hour on the meter.

What has been your experience? Tractor brand, model, and approximate year of manufacture would also help.

Some background is below.

In Minnesota it would be illegal to have an hour meter that does not reflect clock hours.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=325E.166

There is a Hobbs-type meter that measures "on" time:

Hobbs meter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and a Tach Timer:

Tach Timer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then there is this post from Net Tractor Talk:

"My local Kubota dealer said the new Kubota hour meter read with the key on, while many older tractors/equipment hour meters were set to register at or near operating rpms. My snow cats seem to register hours much slower than my new Kubota. This info came to light when I had to delay my hydraulic oil change for lack of parts. The dealer said with the newer hour meters they tend to show more operating hours than older style hour meters on equipment and to not worry about the extra 10 hours of use on the break in hydraulic oil in the L39."

It appears that different brands, ages, and models of tractor could have a very different functioning of the hour meter. Your insights would be appreciated and may save a life or two.

 

[Tul01]

The meter on our 2008 Montana 5740c is tach based. Lots of days I work much of the day with the loader and only end up with 3 hours on the meter.

Brent

 

[DK35vince]

Both my Kioti DK 35 and John Deere 850 are tach based.
Need to run 2000 RPM for 1 hour to register 1 hour.
My zero turn has the clock type meter (turns on with the key).
I seems to me like on the clock type meter the hours add up faster than my tach based meters.

 

[gwdixon]

I'm not sure what you are looking for.. you have described both the electric 'clock' style meter and the rpm based mechanical meter.
soundguy

That is just what I am looking for...examples from those in the know how their particular tractors or equipment record the hours.

So far there doesn't seem to be a consistent pattern. Some tractors record "clock on" time while others have the RPM timer style - even with the same manufacturer. Others have stated that their equipment has both. It would be nice if manufacturers would label the meters. On the other hand - does it make that much difference?

I can see where the RPM style would better reflect the wear on the engine but neither style takes into account the load. One could be pulling a plow at fairly low RPM but putting considerable strain on the engine.

The bottom line seems to be to service the tractor regularly while taking into consideration its use as a factor. The hour meter is more of a reminder.

When buying a used tractor it is evident that "hours" remains the Holy Grail of evaluation. Now it is clear that "hours" can mean entirely different things.

 

[Soundguy]

. It would be nice if manufacturers would label the meters. .

why.. it's easy to check.. look at the meter.. do some work that doesn't require constant pto rpm speed.. which is where many rpm based units record 1 hr... do 1 hr work.. look at the meter again... if it says 1 hr.. it's a clock.. if it has a different number it's rpm based.

. On the other hand - does it make that much difference?.

depends on what you are recording the time for...

if for rental.. then the renter usually wants clock hours. if for oil change or air filter.. then rpm hours may be a better choice.

. I can see where the RPM style would better reflect the wear on the engine but neither style takes into account the load. One could be pulling a plow at fairly low RPM but putting considerable strain on the engine..

load can better be seen on an rpm meter.. a clock style just says yer key is on.

pulling a plow you likely are not idling... least I've never been able to idle while breaking ground..

. The bottom line seems to be to service the tractor regularly while taking into consideration its use as a factor. The hour meter is more of a reminder.

well.. that's what it's there for. In haeavy or extreme conditions.. you will liekly want to check and service more often.. especially the air filter in dusty conditions..


soundguy

 

[firefighter jim]

Both Kubota's that I own go by pto speed. For example: if pto speed is 2000 and the engine is run at 2000 rpm for 1 hour the hour meter will log 1 hour on it. If the engine is running at 1000 rpm, it will have to run for 2 hours to log 1 hour on the meter.

 

[gwdixon]

why.. it's easy to check.. look at the meter.. do some work that doesn't require constant pto rpm speed.. which is where many rpm based units record 1 hr... do 1 hr work.. look at the meter again... if it says 1 hr.. it's a clock.. if it has a different number it's rpm based.

soundguy

The real question is "why not"? Clear labeling would clear up any confusion. There are labels and warning for just about everything else.

 

[jimgerken]

On older farm tractors, the meters that read hours biased by rpm were called TACH-HOUR METERS. And the tach was labeled as such "TACH-HOURS".

 

[Soundguy]

The real question is "why not"? Clear labeling would clear up any confusion. There are labels and warning for just about everything else.

and you want more consumer protection labeling? really? really?

What about the manual... old ford proofmeter docs tell you how they work.. I would bet some others do as well... easier to put it int he manual ( that most don't read ).. then to have to put a lable on every gauge explaining how it works....


soundguy

 

[RobertN]

What was that song, from 1970? "Signs" by Five Man Electrical Band

"Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign "

and you want more consumer protection labeling? really? really?

What about the manual...

 

[Duffster]

Lets have both, then you will know if the hours where put on with lots of idling or lots of wide open throttle.

On the 399 if you shut the key off it doesn't count any hours.

When did we get the new smilies? I like 'em. :thumbsup:

 

[EE_Bota]

Kubota BX2200 uses an electric clock; if there is power, hours are running, even if the engine is off.