Oil & Fuel Syntheic oil at 50hr service? Old topic, but want fresh ideas

[OtterBrookStables]

This topic has been beat to death, but I'd like to hear the latest opinions. My 4120 just turned 50 hrs. When I bought the tractor, my dealer gave me 8 quarts of Plus-50 10W-30 and a filter and told me to change the oil at 50-60 hours. The manual says nothing like this and calls for the first oil change at 200 hours! Now, the tractor comes with break-in oil which has no detergents or other additives that keep motors running clean. I am a big fan of synthetics and run it in every motor I own. Many new gas and diesel motors are coming with synthetic from the factory. I get all sorts of (conflicting) advice depending on which mechanic or self-proclaimed oil expert I ask. Lots of people are clinging to old-school ideas or just what sounds right to them - even though the advice isn't based on any real data or factual information. So, I'm inclined to put in the 10W-30 Plus-50 (just because I already have it) and then switch to Deere 0W-40 Plus-50 synthetic at 100 hours. I'll go on a yearly schedule from there which for me is about 200 hours.

Okay - bring it on - thoughts?? :confused2:

 

[bp fick]

I also believe that since so many, the list is quite long, of brand new cars that come with synthetic already in the crankcase, that the issue, especially at the 50 hour mark, is irrelevant for the most part.

I'd probably use what you got from your dealer. Why spend the money for anything else, frankly. I have no idea why your manual wouldn't call for an oil change earlier than 200 hours, but in any case, the original, dirty, old nasty stuff wouldn't be in my crankcase for more than 40-50 hours. Just my $.02

Just so you know, for future reference, Shell now markets a semi-synthetic with really pretty good specs for VERY reasonable. Rotella T5. Found it at WalMart for $14 or so. Available in either 10w-30 or 10w-40.

 

[glc24]

I'd like to hear some fresh input on this topic also. I know,10 different people, ten different answers. IMO,unless you in a severely dirty environment,and beat the crap out of your tractor,you probably could go much longer between oil changes using synthetic,as it doesn't break down as quickly as petroleum based.
My .02

Greg

 

[OtterBrookStables]

I'd like to hear some fresh input on this topic also. I know,10 different people, ten different answers. IMO,unless you in a severely dirty environment,and beat the crap out of your tractor,you probably could go much longer between oil changes using synthetic,as it doesn't break down as quickly as petroleum based.
My .02

Greg

Thanks Greg - and I agree for the most part. You should never go beyond a year, though, regardless of what oil you use. This is due to the products of combustion and temperature swings that will get into the oil - i.e. water. Unfortunately synthetic doesn't help in this regard. The real advantage of synthetic isn't really longer change intervals, it it protection at temperature extremes - both hot and cold - where conventional oil breaks down or turns into goop. Cold starts alone are worth the cost of synthetic if you live in a frozen part of the world like me....

 

[ray66v]

Modern mineral oils are so good, there initially is no real difference between them, and the synthetics, at normal operating temperatures.

That being the case, there is no longer any reason to wait to switch.

If the manufacturer does not specify using a breaking oil, you don't need to worry about it.

 

[OtterBrookStables]

Modern mineral oils are so good, there initially is no real difference between them, and the synthetics, at normal operating temperatures.

That being the case, there is no longer any reason to wait to switch.

If the manufacturer does not specify using a breaking oil, you don't need to worry about it.

Agreed and thanks for your input!

But here lies the problem - nothing in the manual referencing break-in or break-in oil - NOTHING! - just specifies the first oil anf filter change at 200 hours. But the tractor does have break-in oil from the factory. So the question really is when to swap it out? 200 hours just doesn't seem right, and my dealer said change it at 50 - but where is that written down and why?It just blows my mind that a company like deere with all of it's technology and dealer network cannot give anyone a straight answer on this. When you think you have a straight answer that makes sense, another expert will give another answer that's 180 degrees out. :confused2:

 

[bp fick]

Agreed and thanks for your input!

But here lies the problem - nothing in the manual referencing break-in or break-in oil - NOTHING! - just specifies the first oil anf filter change at 200 hours. But the tractor does have break-in oil from the factory. So the question really is when to swap it out? 200 hours just doesn't seem right, and my dealer said change it at 50 - but where is that written down and why?It just blows my mind that a company like deere with all of it's technology and dealer network cannot give anyone a straight answer on this. When you think you have a straight answer that makes sense, another expert will give another answer that's 180 degrees out. :confused2:

I honestly cannot speak for the Asian OEMs who make the vast majority of the tractors of TBN owners, but I do know that automobiles and trucks built here in North America have not used "break in" oil for decades. Just plain old regular, modern oil, bought in bulk, and gun fed into the engines at the end of assembly.

 

[bp fick]

. When you think you have a straight answer that makes sense, another expert will give another answer that's 180 degrees out. :confused2:

In the 2/3 world, where hundreds of thousands of tractors are worked to death every day, these conversations we have here on TBN do not exist. It those tractors ever get maintenance, it is with whatever one might have on hand in Dodoma, Tanzania for example. Most go a decade between oil changes and keep on running and running. Just sayin'. We grossly over think this stuff.

 

[ray66v]

Manual specifies the first oil and filter change at 200 hours.

This seems to be your answer.

But, 200 hrs seems to be a really long time for break in oil.

Are you positive it comes with a break in oil from the factory???

 

[ray66v]

In the 2/3 world, where hundreds of thousands of tractors are worked to death every day, Most go a decade between oil changes and keep on running and running.

You must know my Dad. :laughing:

 

[OtterBrookStables]

This seems to be your answer.

But, 200 hrs seems to be a really long time for break in oil.

Are you positive it comes with a break in oil from the factory???

Agreed - 200 hours is too long. Need to get the metal filings from break-in out sooner at the very least.

I'm positive on the break-in oil - if the dealer is right!!! The dealer says it is, but

 

[OtterBrookStables]

I honestly cannot speak for the Asian OEMs who make the vast majority of the tractors of TBN owners, but I do know that automobiles and trucks built here in North America have not used "break in" oil for decades. Just plain old regular, modern oil, bought in bulk, and gun fed into the engines at the end of assembly.

The 4X20 series has the deere power tech diesel, made in the good 'ole US of A. The dealer says there is break-in oil in there but is he right??

 

[OtterBrookStables]

In the 2/3 world, where hundreds of thousands of tractors are worked to death every day, these conversations we have here on TBN do not exist. It those tractors ever get maintenance, it is with whatever one might have on hand in Dodoma, Tanzania for example. Most go a decade between oil changes and keep on running and running. Just sayin'. We grossly over think this stuff.

I hear you - and you've got a good point. But it's just hard not to want the best for our green babies... Not to mention they cost an arm and a leg, so anything we can do to reduce the risk of failure is a good thing.

 

[OtterBrookStables]

You must know my Dad. :laughing:

:laughing:And mine..... "you don't need no stinking synthetic, I've run regular oil for 50 years and never had a problem".

I just say yes, Dad, you're right - because the argument would be way too painful!

 

[bp fick]

:laughing:And mine..... "you don't need no stinking synthetic, I've run regular oil for 50 years and never had a problem".

I just say yes, Dad, you're right - because the argument would be way too painful!

Me? Way too OCD!!! I like to save a buck, so I shop for a good price on a quality name and change oil/filter annually. No new tractor of mine would go over a year without maintenance. Actually, my old man, God rest his soul, was pretty much the same way and he taught me.

 

[ray66v]

Agreed - 200 hours is too long. Need to get the metal filings from break-in out sooner at the very least.

I'm positive on the break-in oil - if the dealer is right!!! The dealer says it is, but

My engineering dept. said his guess would be they are possibly using a straight weight oil, as for a breaking oil. Not a mineral oil, as I am used to seeing used to break in aircraft engines. Mineral oil would never hold up in a diesel. In an aircraft engine, (still 1940's technology), after about 10 hrs, out it goes, and in goes the synthetic.

He would follow the recommendations in the manual.

He also said it's 2010, their should not be any metal filings.

 

[glc24]

I can't find it,but my manual actually states the engine oil from the factory is break-in oil. It also states to change the oil after 50 hours,which makes alot more sense than waiting on 200.

Greg

 

[Starbucket]

If you are planning to keep your tractor for a long time, USE AMSOIL SYN 12 TBN 15W-40 @ 50 hrs and yearly after that. Google AMSOIL and look at ther test results and warrenty. They will ship to your home. Its the only oil I use. My .02 cents

 

[bp fick]

I hear you - and you've got a good point. But it's just hard not to want the best for our green babies... Not to mention they cost an arm and a leg, so anything we can do to reduce the risk of failure is a good thing.

Again, your dealer gave you your 50 hour oil. Nice. Use it. This will buy you another 50 hours to obsess over what to do next.

Still way over thinking this. Your tractor isn't considered broken in, by Deere, until the 100 hour mark. FWIW

 

[Tunguska]

Agreed - 200 hours is too long. Need to get the metal filings from break-in out sooner at the very least.

I'm positive on the break-in oil - if the dealer is right!!! The dealer says it is, but

I'm with you, brother.

Every new vehicle I've bought gets the first oil change at 25 hrs./500 miles for the reasons you state. Machining remnants are in there, and sending them on their way early on is well worth the $30 an oil change costs, IMHO.

I've also heard that rings seat better with dinosaur oil but who knows?

To each his own.