Pole barn vs. Steel Building

[hokiebird]

What I want - 40 x 64 x 16 building for vehicles, equipment storage (tractor, mowers, tiller, etc) and workshops. Plus plumbing for bathroom and utility sinks. I don't have the time to do the major construction myself (framing, roof, siding, floor). I will be doing the finish work inside myself.

Got an estimate from a pole barn builder - good local reputation with the farmers around here.

Then a friend suggested I look into steel buildings. It turns out that the quote for the steel building is very close to the pole barn. And that includes a standard foundation and 5" poured floor with a 2' high concrete stem wall that I want to increase the overall interior height to 18'.

Part of me likes the idea of having a standard concrete foundation with frost footings. And I think a 2' high stem wall of solid concrete would help with general wear and tear on the walls. Both buildings have 26g siding and roof. Both with same overhead doors, personnel doors, windows.

Major difference is that the steel was quoted with standard 1/12 roof; pole barn quoted with 6/12 roof and scissor trusses so that I could get >18ft centerline height inside. A steeper roof would "flow" better with our traditional farmhouse and other barns on the property. But having a 1/12 roof would save on insulation costs (planning on using spray-foam).

Wood posts will rot, eventually. And steel will rust, eventually. But if built right, they would both last my lifetime and probably my kids' lifetime.

Any comments out there on preferences?

 

[3BPercherons]

We built (had built, actually, although I served as general contractor) a 30x50X14 metal building on a concrete slab w/ full plumbing and electric and are very happy with both the construction experience and subsequent use. 20x30 is heated (radiant tube heater) and serves as a shop, while the remainder is used as a 2 stall barn for grooming, vet care, farrier visits etc.

Once we figured out what we wanted, ordered the material and chose our builder, plumber & electrician the actual construction was quick and relatively painless (aside from not noticing until after the floor was poured that the plumber initially placing the toilet rough-in in the wrong location in the little bathroom we included). As you noticed, the price was not far off from stick construction. I now have both a pole barn and the new metal building, and after using them both for an extended period, if I had the $$ I'd replace the pole barn with another metal structure.

 

[gwjd]

think you are geting a better deal on the steal due to the 2' high walls this building would actualy be weather tight and last for ever i suspect it has a much higher efecto on property value as well not to mention 18 foot clerance

 

[framer]

I have built many homes and pole barns wood and steel. Always liked steel no creaking and rattling with steel main structure will stay put in high winds and tornadoes.If the price is right buy steel. Good luck.

 

[hokiebird]

Thanks for the responses. They agree with several other folks I've asked. Will be meeting with a builder again this week to see if we can hammer out the details and get started now that the snow is going away.

 

[hokiebird]

Pulled the trigger on the steel building today.

40' x 60'. 2' stem wall with 16' steel walls for 18' total height.

Two 14'w x 12'h insulated overhead doors. Plus personnel doors and windows.

Going with Thermal Design insulation for the roof - really like their system, and it came in cheaper than spray foam. Also getting walls insulated with 9" + vapor barrier + steel siding cheaper than spray foam. Planning on putting in radiant floor heating myself in the 5" slab floor. Once the shell gets put in, I'll be finishing the inside for workshops, bathroom and a rec room for the kids.

 

[Mousefield]

As your building gets going post some pics and also the costs (if you are comfortable with that). Especially interesting would be unexpected costs or issues not in the original quote. This would help others who are looking at building something similar.

 

[timswi]

If you go all steel, factor in insulation. It will sweat if there is rapid temp changes if the raw steel is exposed. Can mess up your toys. Other than that, steel is a great long term investment.

 

[Ridgewalker]

You should consider stamping the concrete in the area your finishing out.
That's my plan, I kind of like the slate stamps. I think that would give you a nice looking floor that will wear well over time. There is a place near me where you can rent the stamps.

Cadillac Concrete Stamps and Products - Stamped Concrete

 

[mojoinco]

In the areas that will have stress grooves -- cut the concrete instead. So much easier to use (roll over). Though I am not familiar with the steel building, I presume the siding is assembled the same as pole barns. Install the rubber/foam siding fillers (between the siding and the cap and bottom panel). This keeps the wind from blowing through. And snow. It should help reduce vermin too. Shouldn't be that much money.

 

[framer]

Good choice. Keep us posted pictures if possible.You mentioned wood pole
barn was about same price curious about price difference.Good luck.

 

[hokiebird]

I'll be having a 2' high concrete stem wall all around the building base that extends up from the frost footing. The sill plate/concrete will be sealed with a polymer membrane and caulk, and then the exterior siding will be lapped over the concrete to prevent any water penetration. Should be air-tight and shouldn't have to worry about any rodents. The siding will be 26g galvalume. And the floor will have cuts as well.

One of the reasons I'm going with steel is the tightness of the building compared to a pole barn. I'll be keeping a lot of beekeeping supplies and equipment in one of the workshops, and using it for honey extracting. So I wanted something that was definitely tight.

I'll be getting the excavators in over the next few days to get bids on leveling and grading.

Also working on getting water supply line ready. House is about 30ft away, and could run a line of softened water out there to supply utility sinks and a bathroom. I assume I would want a pressure tank in the building. The well is about 100ft away.

In the areas that will have stress grooves -- cut the concrete instead. So much easier to use (roll over). Though I am not familiar with the steel building, I presume the siding is assembled the same as pole barns. Install the rubber/foam siding fillers (between the siding and the cap and bottom panel). This keeps the wind from blowing through. And snow. It should help reduce vermin too. Shouldn't be that much money.

 

[Mousefield]

I'll be having a 2' high concrete stem wall all around the building base that extends up from the frost footing. The sill plate/concrete will be sealed with a polymer membrane and caulk, and then the exterior siding will be lapped over the concrete to prevent any water penetration. Should be air-tight and shouldn't have to worry about any rodents. The siding will be 26g galvalume. And the floor will have cuts as well.

One of the reasons I'm going with steel is the tightness of the building compared to a pole barn. I'll be keeping a lot of beekeeping supplies and equipment in one of the workshops, and using it for honey extracting. So I wanted something that was definitely tight.

I'll be getting the excavators in over the next few days to get bids on leveling and grading.

Also working on getting water supply line ready. House is about 30ft away, and could run a line of softened water out there to supply utility sinks and a bathroom. I assume I would want a pressure tank in the building. The well is about 100ft away.

You should not need a water pressure tank in the shop. The house water has a pressure tank and you are close enough to use it without a huge loss of pressure. We have our pressure tank in our shop near the well and our house is 200 feet away, then behind the house about 100 feet is our barn. We use house water in the barn. So the pressure tank in the shop is a good 300 feet from the barn and we get good water pressure there.

 

[DiskDoctr]

I have 40x60x16 insulated steel building we built ourselves.

Under the concrete you should have heavy plastic at least. Better to insulate it if you are putting in radiant tubing- something reflective.

We poured the concrete in 3 20x40 slabs with a piece of 7/16" OSB acting as a form between the sections that we left in as a stress joint. No cracking or problems of any kind, and that is over a lot of fill, 6' plus in some areas.

We used 24" sonotubes where each main upright and the corners would stand, used earthquake anchors to secure. Before placing the uprights, we poured the floor over top of the sonotubes.

You'll have the extra 2' sides and be on top of that- good.

Think now about any overhead beams or cranes you want and prepare your flooring for that (ie jib).

Can't wait to see the pics! We're excited for you!

- JC

 

[Soundguy]

I have both a stick bilt vinyl sided tack room/feed room/ garage, a wood pole barn, and a new metal building.. They all serve their purpose.

keep that metal building painted and it should last a loooooong time.

soundguy

 

[hokiebird]

Thanks for the info. Pouring the slab will be the last step of major construction. Planning on using the vapor barrier, gravel/sand, and 2" thick foam board for insulation under the slab. Will have 2" foam around the sides as well. I'm planning on installing the radiant heat system myself (with help of friend who did his own garage), then bringing in the guys to pour the slab.

Next few weeks will be taken with getting bids on building pad prep other preparations. Once things get going, I'll be posting pictures.

I have 40x60x16 insulated steel building we built ourselves.

Under the concrete you should have heavy plastic at least. Better to insulate it if you are putting in radiant tubing- something reflective.

We poured the concrete in 3 20x40 slabs with a piece of 7/16" OSB acting as a form between the sections that we left in as a stress joint. No cracking or problems of any kind, and that is over a lot of fill, 6' plus in some areas.

We used 24" sonotubes where each main upright and the corners would stand, used earthquake anchors to secure. Before placing the uprights, we poured the floor over top of the sonotubes.

You'll have the extra 2' sides and be on top of that- good.

Think now about any overhead beams or cranes you want and prepare your flooring for that (ie jib).

Can't wait to see the pics! We're excited for you!

- JC

 

[DiskDoctr]

Planning on using the vapor barrier, gravel/sand, and 2" thick foam board for insulation under the slab. Will have 2" foam around the sides as well. I'm planning on installing the radiant heat system myself (with help of friend who did his own garage), then bringing in the guys to pour the slab.

Take some pics of the tubing layout before you pour the concrete. You may never need it, but it's better to document what you have. Ask the guy I told almost 30 yrs ago to use an electric pencil to mark the location of his septic tank lid on the frame of his mobile home when installing. He had to dig it up to pump out at one time (even with regular maintenance, sometimes this has to happen. With less maintenance, more likely), and called me to see where we etched it!

About the insulation under the slab. Good idea. Keep in mind that even the cheap white foam coated with the foil backing will do a good job. Key items here are 1) thermal brake (foam), 2) vapor barrier (you are doing this) 3) reflection (foil backing)

With these things you are addressing conduction, convection, and radiation (thermal, not the geiger counter stuff )

If I had my choice, I'd use even the cheaper constructed foam to get the foil over the denser foam without foil. Of course, they make dense foam with foil, too, but diminishing returns on cost

Have you thought how you are going to hold the tubing in place while pouring and what pattern you are going to use? (You know there should NEVER be any joints or fitting under the slab, unless you leave an access hole)

Why is holding it important? First is to keep your layout for efficiency. But the more important is so the pipe does not come to surface while pouring, leaving too little concrete on top, or (gasp!) breaking the surface. It's easy to do, but it's also easy to avoid if you plan ahead.

And of course, you are going to use oxygen barrier tubing and all that jazz and make sure you don't leave it exposed to the sun while waiting to be installed (UV damages most PEX)

And you will be pressure testing your tubing with (compressed air?) after laying and before pouring the concrete.

And being careful your turns are sweeping enough not to kink and rolling the tubing off the roll so it lays flat naturally.

You probably know all this, but it never hurts to restate it. Better than letting it slip your mind. (easy to do, with all the other things you gotta be thinking about).

On our bigger projects-especially those done in pieces over a long period of time- I like to keep a project book. It's just a binder separated into sections with diagrams, research info, permit/regulations, equipment/technologies being considered, potential vendors, anything else important for the project, and finally documentation of how it was actually done (as-builts).

The book is very helpful when your help shows up and you are giving them an overview of what you are looking to accomplish and the key points. I've found that people (helpers) are more likely to pay attention to the important details if they are drawn out and explained ahead of time.

We do a lot of DIYs of our own between a number of families, and this certainly helps there, too. They tend to stretch out over a number of years, as time and money become available and other projects are finished.

Done right, you'll love radiant floor heat.

Oh- and think about your drains. I ran a 4" main line down one side and ran laterals out to each of the 3 sections, then put an additional trap at the end of the main line where it joins the outside drainline (outside the concrete base in case of clogging).

Garage floors often have the problem with the water evaporating out of the traps and leaving the drains exposed to sewer gases and cold air inflows. This way you only have to use any one of the drains occasionally to keep that trap filled.

Just some tips to help you get the best setup you can. Most of it is effort and planning, not expense. No sense wasting what I've learned, may as well pass it along

- JC

 

[wedge40]

I'm wondering if there would be a good way to "mark" the pex so you can find/avoid it later if need be.
I was going to use wire mesh for re-enforcement but might use rebar and zip tie the pex to it.

Wedge

 

[RPW]

- And that includes a standard foundation and 5" poured floor -

From what I've been told and read a 5" thick slab is designed for a standard garage. For a shop/barn that will need to withstand higher weight loads should be 6" - 8" thick.

 

[rambler]

Typically a bigger building starts to get cheaper in steel, smaller is cheaper in wood. Surprised yours is big enough for the steel to be equal, good choice if the price is the same.

Might I comment on the doors? Wouldn't you want one door higher - you have all that headroom, 18 feet, and you are limiting yourself to a 12 foot high door? That's pretty low for the building you have. Might kick yourself later.....

--->Paul