Global Warming News

[FallbrookFarmer]

This is not a reply to anyone's specific comment. It is something I have found value in, and therefore wish to share.

I am going to finish the "Crash Course" today, but when I got to 17a, it reminded me of you guys.

Crash Course Chapter 17a: Peak Oil - Economy - Crash Course Videos at Chris Martenson - Economy, Energy, export land model, fuel shortages, oil production, Peak Oil, supply and demand, three Es

I like this series. I think that a great many of you could use it to educate others, particularly young people. I have no children, so I will not have to deal with whether is is better for my children to be "happy" or "prepared" and issues about what can I possibly do to make this all up to them.

I have subscribed to this thread briefly to see if any of you thank me, cuss me, or have questions, but I will soon unsubscribe, since I consider Global Warming to be completely beside the point. The "Crash Course" series does in my opinion embody many of the real points.

Interesting reading, but I guess when someone says that
"peak oil is fact" with no supporting evidence(other than consensus, Gee does that sound familiar?) I have to question the conclusion.
In the first chapter, I will give the author credit for pointing out that all the rest of the articles are based on his "three beliefs".
But as we have seen if your basic research/beliefs are not provable, then the rest is an exercise in persuasion.
If you want a really good read that will put the world in perspective, I recommend "Basic Economics, A citizens guide to the economy"by Thomas Sowell.
As Sowell points out scarcity is and always has been a fact of life in every economic system, whether it is capitalist or socialist/communist. The question becomes whether that society can find "alternatives" to the scarce resources.
I would suggest that people in free market societies have a much easier time finding those alternatives, rather than some bureaucrat commanding an outcome(Think ethanol, and how well that turned out).
Don't think of myself as a Pollyanna, but I am always hopeful that man being an ingenious species, can invent him self out of most problems, if allowed to.

 

[Loren49]

FallbrockFarmer,
I only came up with the McCain connection when I googled the Obama connection. The two articles I referenced stated some funding and association with Soro and they were just 2 of the 412,000 hits. There are 561,000 hits for Obama and Soro - of course he is the President.
A note of interest on corporations - just heard today that the embargo banning certain trading with Iran by US businesses or corporations is being circumvented. Foreign subsidiaries of many US corporations are allowed to trade with Iran and are doing it. So are the US Corporations helping or hurting US policy. And in case you haven't noticed we deal in all sorts of ways-business, corporations, agricultural products, sell national debt,etc,- with China - the largest communist country in the world.
As I stated earlier it looks like Soro was playing both sides of the fence just as many big corporations do. I'm sure much of what goes on in this type of support is hidden. As you attack progressives remember that progressives earned women the right to vote, freed the slaves and desegregated the nation.



Loren

PS:a little info on Soro (who I had not heard of until reading the post today)
George Soros | Open Society Institute

In 1993, Soros created the Open Society Institute, which supports the Soros foundations working to develop democratic institutions throughout Central and Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. His network of philanthropic organizations dedicated to building open societies has expanded to include more than 60 countries in the Middle East, Central Asia, Africa, and Latin America. Despite the breadth of his endeavors, Soros is personally involved in planning and implementing many of the foundation networkç—´ projects. His visionary efforts have produced a remarkable record of successful philanthropy, including efforts to free developmentally challenged people from life-long confinement in state institutions, to provide palliative care to the dying, to win release for prisoners held without legal grounds in penitentiaries in Nigeria, to halt the spread of tuberculosis and HIV/AIDS, to create debate societies, to promote freedom of the press, and to help resource-rich countries establish mechanisms to manage their revenues in a way that will promote economic growth and good governance rather than poverty and instability.

Objective look at the man's work:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soros_Foundation

 

[Chuck52]

I only skimmed the article about an energy-limited possible future, and will only comment on the concept of "peak oil".

Unless one believes that oil is being produced by natural forces now, as some do indeed, and further believes that the rate of that production exceeds the demand for oil, it is fairly clear that oil is then a limited resource, at least in the sense that it cannot be infinite. Water, oxygen, carbon dioxide (and the various forms in which carbon appears) are parts of natural cycles. Water is synthesized all the time by both biological and abiotic reactions, as are free oxygen and the various forms of carbon. I suppose it is possible, even reasonable, that the very complex material we know as crude oil is being synthesized now by the same processes which made what we've been pumping out of the ground, and some have speculated on an abiotic reaction whereby CO2 might be condensed under extreme conditions, near the Earth's mantle, to form crude oil, though I have difficulty imagining that mechanism. I believe that the availability of crude oil is much more akin to, say, the availability of gold. What is present in the ground and what we've already dug up is it.....there ain't no more.

Chuck

 

[MikePA]

As you attack progressives remember that progressives earned women the right to vote, freed the slaves and desegregated the nation.

As Harry Reid recently said, you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. Progressives didn't do any of the things you mentioned.

 

[Loren49]

My understanding of being progressive is in line with these definitions:

progressive - favoring or promoting progress; "progressive schools"
progressive - favoring or promoting reform (often by government action)
progressive - (of taxes) adjusted so that the rate increases as the amount of income increases
progressive - gradually advancing in extent
progressive - a tense of verbs used in describing action that is on-going
progressive - (of a card game or a dance) involving a series of sections for which the participants successively change place or relative position; "progressive euchre"; "progressive tournaments"
progressive - liberal: a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties
Date: circa 1612
1 a : of, relating to, or characterized by progress b : making use of or interested in new ideas, findings, or opportunities c : of, relating to, or constituting an educational theory marked by emphasis on the individual child, informality of classroom procedure, and encouragement of self-expression

I agree that it was not the "progressive party" that accomplished these things but I feel the people behind the movement were progressives just as people behind health care reform are progressives.

Loren

 

[MikePA]

... but I feel the people behind the movement were progressives just as people behind health care reform are progressives.

Time to leave this thread when people start equating people who freed the slaves with the socialists behind health care 'reform'. Cya.

 

[dave1949]

Read this to see if any of this discussion matters in the "big picture".

http://i.imgur.com/WOh7B.jpg

Very cool. We are on a cosmic dust mote - but it's OUR dust mote by golly
Who can bear thinking of our insignificance?
Dave.

 

[Loren49]

We certainly are just a spec in the big picture but this earth is all we have while we're here.
Sorry you had to go again MikePA but if you can't label people as socialists, liberals or progressives when you tire of a discussion or have nothing constructive to say what else could you do. The use of labels to criticize others views of a topic serve no good but to lower the level of the conversation. If you check the definition of a progressive its not really that scary - most of us are progressive in some way or other.

Loren

 

[dave1949]

I guess I am sort of an absolutist about property rights because they are at the base of all our freedoms.
One only has to look to the Kelo decision to see how far the camel's nose of government interference has diminished the right of citizens to use their property as they see fit.
I know that you can use examples of "car on Blocks" and "neighbors with smelly outhouses" etc. But I would point you back to London, where neighborhoods where there literally slaughterhouses, are now some of the poshest of Londons smart neighborhoods.
Markets will always decide the highest and best use for a particular piece of property, and if the present owner is not smart enough to realize what that is, I can guarantee that someone else will.
I can tell you from personal experience that one can make a very nice living,
going into neighborhoods, and scouting out that piece of property that everyone else is crying about, and buying it, cleaning it up, and either selling it or holding it for rental.
Free markets and free men make better decisions about the use of property than any zoning board ever could.

The Kelo decision could be, and was, well argued either way. I will grant you that is a good indication of government heavy-handedness. It was not decided as I would have liked, but I can see the arguments have some validity. The public vs private requirement is not so important to me as the rights of the property owner; she was not creating any harm or hazard in her current use.

If a large commercial area develops through growth and it becomes necessary for the 'good of the public' to expand or redesign the streets and highways to accomodate the resulting traffic, we don't think it is so odd to 'take' property needed to accomplish that. So, the 'taking' was really to accomodate a private interest - to make it more convenient to work or do business in that developed area. The general public benefits, but only as a secondary result. The real causation and beneficiaries are the commercial enterprises. That isn't so very different conceptually from the situation in Kelo. Of course in Kelo, nothing existed and still doesn't Public and private is a murky line.

I cannot agree that we should allow the market to determine the 'best and highest' use of property. I think it is admirable you renovate distressed properties and you rightly should be be compensated. That isn't changing the 'use' of the property however. So, that doesn't support your argument.

If you tear the house down and put in an off track betting parlor and few slots, you would make money too, probably more. That would be an example of a 'higher' use that does change it from current use (residential housing). I don't think that would belong in the original neighborhood, and zoning is what keeps it from happening.
Dave.

 

[bstrom]

"Markets will always decide the highest and best use for a particular piece of property"


Who defines what the "best and highest" use is? If it's the market it almost always will be the most profitable use. That , believe it or not is not always the best use of land. Those of us who like to hunt, fish, camp and hike want to have unspoiled places to do those things. To me and others who like wild places that is the highest use. Not Golf courses and Condo developments, shopping malls like a development corp. is planning on doing to some of the last unspoiled wilderness here in Maine. I don't trust most business to do the right thing, I just don't. They don't have a good record in my book. When it's just about profit and nothing else it don't work. There are to many greedy people in the world.