Buying Advice BX25 or GC2410??? Please Help!!!

[Gittyup]

just remember that over-the-phone quotes are often more than when you are there in person. I'd at least go look and talk serious in person.

 

[northwoodpower]

Go to the Massey ferguson web site, and check out the head to head video, if you have not done so. The GC2410 is a much better tractor, I chose to sell Massey Fergusons, because I felt they were the best on the market, if I did not beleve this I would be selling another brand.

 

[mjpalmer]

I watched the video and believe they only really made two important distinctions. The bucket size of the backhoe and the seat being a little higher. Massey might be stepping in a big pile of doo-doo mentioning that they run at 2600 vs 3200 on the Kubota because their GC2610 does the same thing. Same engine just bumped to a higher RPM. Everything else to me is a "so what". I like the heal and toe pedal design. The loader cylinder is also a minor point. Look at many of the large backhoes nowadays and you'll see they use the same design. Resales value down the road, to me, will definately go to Kubota. Both are fine machines and you can make either one shine based on how you present the info.

 

[tsteahr]

Massey might be stepping in a big pile of doo-doo mentioning that they run at 2600 vs 3200 on the Kubota because their GC2610 does the same thing. Same engine just bumped to a higher RPM.

On the engine rpm, I would suggest you try operating both a BX and a GC at idle or a little above. I think you will recognize the difference. The BX is essentially immobile, the GC operates a little slow but just fine. The GC engine has quite a bit more displacement than the BX, about 1.123 liter vs 898 cc. It seems reasonable to point out the difference between the engines, it is quite apparent when actually operating the two machines.

 

[mjpalmer]

tsteahr

I still fail to see your point about the RPMs. Are you expecting full hydraulic response at idle? I have a BX2660HST and an L3130GST series. I grew up on a Dairy farm with all Masseys (gear drive). No tractor has full hydraulics at idle or slightly above. The displacement advantage is true but does that make it a better scut? All hydro trans need rpms to fully function. Yes the Massey is rated at lower rpms but that still does not necessarily make it a better solution. As long as your happy with your selection, thats all that matters. The JD guys would argue that the 2305 is the best.

 

[Cruisin]

I watched the video and believe they only really made two important distinctions. The bucket size of the backhoe and the seat being a little higher. Massey might be stepping in a big pile of doo-doo mentioning that they run at 2600 vs 3200 on the Kubota because their GC2610 does the same thing. Same engine just bumped to a higher RPM. Everything else to me is a "so what". I like the heal and toe pedal design. The loader cylinder is also a minor point. Look at many of the large backhoes nowadays and you'll see they use the same design. Resales value down the road, to me, will definately go to Kubota. Both are fine machines and you can make either one shine based on how you present the info.

I finally watched the video also. I'm not sure why the GC's higher seat is an "advantage". Makes any shaking around more violent for the operator. I like the deeper backhoe bucket but it would be really tough to get sticky clay dirt to dump. Maybe that's why all don't have that size. Everything else including engine revs, etc is typical marketing stuff. Things like 2 cylinders instead of one mean two to maintain... There's certainly no inherent advantage of either configuration. Depends on what hat you're wearing when you make the video. I'm sure both are fine tractors. The Kubota will likely be easier to sell. More orange attachments and accessories available.

 

[FDuce]

IThings like 2 cylinders instead of one mean two to maintain... There's certainly no inherent advantage of either configuration. /QUOTE]

My thought with this is that I would like the load in the bucket to be lifted from both sides of the bucket. Using a single cylinder in the center, if you were to load just one corner and try to curl the bucket it seems the bucket would be prone to twist. I also would think that you would be able to cycle the bucket more with two cylinders becuase you are splitting the work between the cylinders and they would generate less heat than a single doing all the work. This is all my theory though.

 

[Cruisin]

The single cylinder is attached to a very beefy crossmember attached to both loader arms. It would distribute the load more evenly. (That's BS by the way, just an example of marketing spin if you wear an orange cap. ) Lots of big stuff has a single cylinder.
With all other things being equal, the two cylinders individually have to have half as large piston area to provide the same cycle speed as a single cylinder. With half the area, the smaller cylinders individually provide half as much force. Totalled... Same performance. Neither setup contributes much to heat. Most of the heat is created in the HST followed by the pump and pressure relief valve.
I stick with irrelevant if both are well designed.

As for engine rpm, think Harley and Honda. Anyone think the Harley's goin' farther just because the engine runs slower?

 

[tsteahr]

tsteahr

I still fail to see your point about the RPMs. Are you expecting full hydraulic response at idle? I have a BX2660HST and an L3130GST series. I grew up on a Dairy farm with all Masseys (gear drive). No tractor has full hydraulics at idle or slightly above. The displacement advantage is true but does that make it a better scut? All hydro trans need rpms to fully function. Yes the Massey is rated at lower rpms but that still does not necessarily make it a better solution. As long as your happy with your selection, thats all that matters. The JD guys would argue that the 2305 is the best.

I agree. I was not intending to say one is better than another. Just different. I would be very happy with any of the major SCUT TLBs (GC, BX or JD 2305). I personally preferred being able to start up the tractor, nudge the rpm a little above idle and get going. I was not able to do that on the BX I tried. You are absolutely correct that there is nowhere near full flow just over idle on either machine.

I also agree that lower rpms is not necessarily a better solution. There are lots of examples of excellent high revving engines (Japanese sport motorcycles, Honda vtec auto engines, etc) that I have had the pleasure to use. My personal preference on a little tractor was for the lower rpm. But that is just me.

Heck, for all I know maybe the smaller BX motor uses less fuel? Since all the SCUTs are very fuel efficient I did not even consider that.

You are 100% correct they are all excellent machines. All very similar in capability. Any one is a great choice. The important thing is that any potential SCUT buyer be aware of their available options. (Including the NH Boomer 1025.) Threads like this are good because it makes potential buyers aware. There are many people new to tractors, looking for their first machine (perhaps a SCUT) and may never even know the MF exists. I was less then 24 hours away from buying the BX before I knew MF existed.

A thread like this also lets owners share their shopping experiences with people who are looking. I think it is wise for anyone reading these threads to take any one post or the opinions of any one person with a grain of salt, so to speak. One person's opinion, preferences and experienecs (mine for example) is just that - far from fact

 

[Grandad4]

On the engine rpm, I would suggest you try operating both a BX and a GC at idle or a little above. I think you will recognize the difference. The BX is essentially immobile, the GC operates a little slow but just fine. The GC engine has quite a bit more displacement than the BX, about 1.123 liter vs 898 cc. It seems reasonable to point out the difference between the engines, it is quite apparent when actually operating the two machines.

A minor point of order. Folks with greater wisdom than me have said for optimum mechanical longevity and efficiency, any diesel should be primarily operated in its power band, not so much at idle, and HST transmissions should likewise should be operated with ample fluid flow. When a diesel/HST tractor "putters around" at idle, the engine's lower internal temperature can leave unburned fuel in the cylinders, potentially causing unnecessary wear on the cylinder walls. Running the HST at low RPM/pressure is not the best practice for similar reasons.

So, whichever brand or model one has, the preference is to get the RPM's up. That having been said, I hope you enjoy your GC and it gives you as much good service as my BX has given me. It sounds like a fine machine.