Cetane numbers?

   / Cetane numbers? #21  
Didn't Audi use a very high cetane # diesel in their cars that won the races a year or two ago?

I've read on the TDI forums that BP has premium diesel that's much higher than 40 cetane level.

There are some very paraffinic crudes that could produce high cetane diesel if segregated. There's probably some added cost in addition to segregation, such as catalytic dewaxing to make pour point spec, etc. because paraffinic crudes would have more wax in them. Wax raises the pour/gel point of the diesel.

Ralph
 
   / Cetane numbers? #22  
John,

I doubt you are changing the Cetane (number/index) even 0.20 points when "used as directed" and 1 point with the whole bottle. Just like octane boosters - pure hogwash.

Until I see a lab test showing before/after cetane number AND index results, I won't purchase anything that could loosely be termed "tune-up in a can" or the like. I also wouldn't recomend any such products, although I'm sure they do no real harm.
 
   / Cetane numbers? #23  
The chemicals used in PowerService and many other diesel additives are well documented as cetane boosters. I can tell a very noticeable difference in both how well my 7.3 PSD runs and starts when I use the "hogwash":confused:
 
   / Cetane numbers? #24  
Very good question to which the answers are complex and many have been either mentioned directly or eluded to elsewhere in the replies.

Cetane is essentially the opposite of Octane. A higher Cetane rating indicates the fuel is MORE easy to ignite (called "autoignition") while a lower cetane rating is more difficult to ignite. So, within limits, higher IS better as it will provide easier cold starts, more accurate timing and a more complete burn (less soot and smoke).

Higher octane ratings indicate a greater RESISTANCE to autoignition and in most cases a slower reaction rate which actually produces lower engine output when used in an engine not designed for it.

In the USA, most diesel fuel is formulated to ASTM9751 (ASTM 975, 975-1, 9751 are often incorrectly used to mean the same standard). The fuel with which every engine manufacturer must certify their products for emissions is NOT the ASTM standard diesel but "test fuel" that is higher in quality than can be purchased bulk anywhere in the USA. The quality gap between ASTM975 and EPA test fuel was allegedly reduced by a large margin with the intorduction of ULSD in late 2006/early 2007 for 2007 USEPA "on-road" emissions. ULSD is to diesel what Unleaded gasoline is to a typical gasoline engine, I prefer to call it "Unsulfured Diesel", even though there is a small amount of sulfur remaining.

Because of the low quality of the "base stock" used in the USA for diesel (as others have correctly illuminated), it is generally true that higher cetane fuels will have lower specific energy per gallon. This is not a feature of diesel fuel, but of the cheap base stocks used for crude in the USA and the amount of "work" it takes to refine it that causes additional cetane rating reductions.

Now, there is Cetane Index and Cetane Number, they are not the same measure. As with gasoline, you have Pump (motor) and Research octane ratings, this is why you see the "R+M/2" on your gas pump. The octane rating displayed represents the AVERAGE of the Research and Motor octane ratings. There is no analogous pump rating system for diesel in the USA, which in my view is criminal. Believe it or not, different engine designs and control strategies respond to research and motor octane in different ways. Some engines perform best and with lowest emissions with high motor and low research octanes and others are the polar opposite. Diesel engines are no different in that respect.

One MAJOR difference is the cetane rating in a diesel has a material impact on emissions. Higher cetane ratings result in lower Particulate matter (PM) and often (but not always) very slightly increased Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx) emissions.

Relatively high cetane ratings result in:
-Accurate injection timing
-More complete combustion
-Lower PM emissions
-Superior cold startability
-Improved "transient" engine response
-Reduced oil contamination
-Often show a very slight positive efficiency benefit

You would be LUCKY to find diesel in most areas during the majority of the year that will actually meet ASTM975 (40 cetane min) unless it has a significant bio fraction because neat (pure) biodiesel is VERY high in cetane.

So, Do you have a preference in brands?
 
   / Cetane numbers? #25  
BP has been tested and found to be of high quality and consistant.

No supplier, to my knowledge, offers fuel that is even "close" to the EPA/SAE/EMA specs, but they all generally meet API/ASTM specs (which are lower).
 
   / Cetane numbers? #26  
The chemicals used in PowerService and many other diesel additives are well documented as cetane boosters. I can tell a very noticeable difference in both how well my 7.3 PSD runs and starts when I use the "hogwash":confused:

SOTP is not a lab test but I'm glad you are satisfied with your purchase.
 
   / Cetane numbers? #27  
SOTP is not a lab test but I'm glad you are satisfied with your purchase.

Try google...you'll find enough lab tests to keep you reading for hours. Sandia National Labs is one that has tested....Chevron/Oronite also has a lot of info on their site...

By the way SOTP did not come into play for me...I notice no power change, just a much quieter engine (ear test) and quicker cold starting (stopwatch).:cool: Lots of guys on here report the same.
 
   / Cetane numbers? #28  
Bet most fuel additives work like pacebos in medicine. We take the sugar pill pacebo but think we're getting the same results as those guys taking the real thing.

I worked in the industry using dewaxing aids. Injections as low as 0.15% worked on those. This is the typical add % of these fuel additives. So, I can easily see how they would work as a pour depressant (e.g. dewaxing aids generally act also as pour depressants). However, I have a lot of trouble figuring out how 0.15% would improve cetane. Just like in gasoline, something like a long chain paraffin (e.g. octane molecule) helps octane. Same way is how you get cetane improvement in diesel. You use more paraffinic molecules.

If we ever get synthetic diesel from the polymerization of natural gas, we've all be blessed with reasonably cheap low chain molecules from this process and therefore higher cetane numbers.

Ralph
 
   / Cetane numbers? #29  
Just like in gasoline, something like a long chain paraffin (e.g. octane molecule) helps octane. Same way is how you get cetane improvement in diesel. You use more paraffinic molecules.

Not the only way. The chemical 2-EthylHexyl Nitrate is used in many cetane boosters, there are others also. Again- lots and lots of reading material on it all over the 'net from respected sources;)
 
   / Cetane numbers?
  • Thread Starter
#30  
From what I have learned reading, cetane boosters might work. It depends on what is added at the refinery. It seems like if the refinery adds a certain chemical to boost the cetane, adding more of the same chemical won't work. There is really no way to know if the boaster helps or not. I kind of agree, the additives you use are questionable, except I do believe they help with the gelling in the winter.

I'm running bio-diesel, somewhere between 5 and 20% and from what I have read, that takes care of the lubricity issue also.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2001 KINCAID PRO-SERIES 1200V2 HYDRO SEEDER (A51406)
2001 KINCAID...
EXCAVATOR GRAPPLE (A53843)
EXCAVATOR GRAPPLE...
2015 Ford F-150 Ext. Cab Pickup Truck (A53422)
2015 Ford F-150...
2009 Wells Cargo 5th Wheel Office Trailer (A53117)
2009 Wells Cargo...
VOLVO QUICK COUPLER MAST W/ 72" FORKS (A52705)
VOLVO QUICK...
2009 MACK GRANITE (A52472)
2009 MACK GRANITE...
 
Top