Troy Bilt Horse vs Econo-Horse

[2manyrocks]

Okay, driving 3.5 hours....taking off work...having more than one Troy Bilt

sounds like a confirmed case of Troy Bilt fever to me.

 

[87iroc]

Okay, driving 3.5 hours....taking off work...having more than one Troy Bilt

sounds like a confirmed case of Troy Bilt fever to me.

Touche.

Add to that I was planning on taking next Thursday off to hang out with my wife who is on spring break and work on the car. Now I think I'm taking Wednesday off too to work on the tillers.

 

[jas67]

Okay, driving 3.5 hours....taking off work...having more than one Troy Bilt

sounds like a confirmed case of Troy Bilt fever to me.

Last year I drove 2 hours each way to pick up a 53" Yanmar 3pt tiller for my Kubota ($200, but needed tines), and came home with it, and two TroyBilt Horses (paid $100 for the pair). One was a parts machine missing the engine, engine mount, and main shaft. The other had a seized Tecumseh HH60 engine on it (sat outside with no spark plug). I bought a brand new 6.5HP Briggs & Stratton for $190 from Small Engine Warehouse, and spent another $100 in parts, including gaskets and a reverser disk. Now it works great, but still looks like ****. Maybe I'll paint it this year. Anyway, I got a Horse with a brand new 6.5HP engine for about $400. Considering the new Horse is $1999, and used ones go for $800-$1000, I think I did OK.

So, did I read correctly, you left the new engine with the seller? Since a new engine can be had for around $200, that is my recommendation. Esp. with all the ethanol gas these days. A new engine is more likely to be designed to handle it.

 

[87iroc]

Yup, I left the engine(new Harbor Freight) with the seller. I didn't really want it, but now am considering buying one to throw on it to get me tilling this year. Also eyeballing a couple of engines Smallenginewarehouse has. I want to attempt to get the tecumseh started first...but have a feeling I may be better off getting a new one as my small engine expertise is nill. Although I now have a pdf of the tecumseh manual.

My plan currently is to get one running, maybe some fresh paint. Then try to see what it would take, parts wise...to get the other serviceable. If its not too much, I may get it together and sell it to try to pay for both of them and hopefully come out not too much worse off than what I started with. Unfortunately, the one appears that the main shaft has some issues...so it may be a larger cash outlay than I want to get it tilling.

Founds lots of great info online...have printed out a lot of manuals I'll need. About 70 bucks worth of belts, seals, and gaskets should descend on the house this weekend.

Feet first is my motto I guess!

 

[87iroc]

Been a long time coming...but here's the pics of the tillers i picked up.

Ordered up some gaskets and seals after I started taking inventory...determined that the one that had set outside forever was the better of the two transmissions...as the other one the tines wobbled really bad...the bronze tine gear was shot due to quite a bit of endplay on the mainshaft. The bearings were gone in the tines near as I could tell as well. I 'think' they took the thing apart and left out a spacer on the mainshaft...

So here is how it sits today...

I put new axle and main shaft seals in it. Intended to put tine seals in it, but the ones I bought had an odd metal protector over the front of them so I couldn't get them driven in straight. As the seals weren't leaking...I put the old one back in and just left it for now. Tried to use the new carb and get the other Tecumseh running and after determining someone had fubar'd it more than I wanted to mess with(half fins were missing from flywheel)...decided to go the Harbor Freight 6.5 hp route. Ended up getting it for about a 110 bucks after a couple of lucky breaks...that includes a 2 yr extended warranty. I also painted some of the stuff that was in bad shape from sitting outside to try to make it look more presentable...

So cliff notes of new parts...

-Axle Seals
-Input shaft seal
-All gaskets
-Belts
-HF Engine(plan to replace with a better engine in future at some point...but to keep domestic peace in the house had to keep additional cash outlay to a minimum for now)

Issues I have with it in next post...

 

[87iroc]

So only a couple of issues with it...

1) The darn reverse disk. I have it tightened down and it won't clamp on the disk. Is there supposed to be a shim on the back side? I was mixing and matching parts from the two tillers. The pulley and drive disk are from opposite tillers. Were there a couple different reverse disks available(thickness)? I thought maybe it was a casualty of the 'chinese engine' I put on it...but after thinking about it...that wouldn't affect this. The big washer and the bolt are tight...but the disk is shallower than the step on the pulley?? I plan on changing the reverse disks out in the next few days...but chose to just go with it so I could test the beast out.


2) The tines. There is a bit of backlash in the gears...which isn't by itself of concern...but also the tines wobble just a bit(if you grab the tine and try to wobble it back and forth against the bearings...they move some...more than I would think would be normal for the bearings).

I used the thin gasket as thats what came off of it. So I think the backlash is OK....but maybe I did something wrong or maybe it just needs a new pair of bearings put in?

 

[2manyrocks]

Blue engine mixed with red Troy Bilt---well, that's just a shock to my system.

But $110 for a new engine is hard to beat. Did it bolt right up with no issues?

There are different reverse disks listed in my parts book.

For tiller serial nos. 314151 and up, the part no for the reverse disk is 1919 to be used with part # 1484 transmission drive pulley with flat surface for disk for four speed tiller only.

Two speed tillers Serial nos. 163830 to 314150 use hard fiber disk 1072a with #1287 mounting plate.

Two speed tillers Serial nos. 163829 and below use hard fiber reverse disk 1072K with #1287 mounting plate and #1291 washer.

 

[87iroc]

Blue engine mixed with red Troy Bilt---well, that's just a shock to my system.

But $110 for a new engine is hard to beat. Did it bolt right up with no issues?

There are different reverse disks listed in my parts book.

For tiller serial nos. 314151 and up, the part no for the reverse disk is 1919 to be used with part # 1484 transmission drive pulley with flat surface for disk for four speed tiller only.

Two speed tillers Serial nos. 163830 to 314150 use hard fiber disk 1072a with #1287 mounting plate.

Two speed tillers Serial nos. 163829 and below use hard fiber reverse disk 1072K with #1287 mounting plate and #1291 washer.

WOW...believe it or not...that two speed tiller split...splits my tiller s/n's perfectly. That would explain that. I have that parts book, I'll have to look at it. I was just too tired to look it up before posting. I may want to swap those pulley's back across then so I can keep something that is specific to the tillers serial number accurate...

The blue engine is definitely a shock. I thought about painting it red...but decided it would look attrocious if I tried. So I left it blue. Only thing I had to modify was I had to drill the holes in the engine mounting plate out to 25/64....then it bolted right up. Slight edit on this for folks in the future. The HF catalog says like a 3 5/8" or some such square bolt pattern. I think they measured it diagonally for that measurement.

 

[WayneB]

Hey that looks great! Although I think I would paint the blue sometime down the road. Good information on the reverse disk too.

Oh I was wondering if you are parting out the old motor I would like to buy the pull start! Let me know how much.

I am not sure if I read if you have put it to work yet?

Wayne

 

[87iroc]

Hey that looks great! Although I think I would paint the blue sometime down the road. Good information on the reverse disk too.

Oh I was wondering if you are parting out the old motor I would like to buy the pull start! Let me know how much.

I am not sure if I read if you have put it to work yet?

Wayne

I will probably part out the HH60s as I don't care to throw parts at them to try to get them running. I may ask my brother about them as he's more small engine knowledgeable than me. He may be able to tinker between the 2 and get it fired with little effort. I will let you know on the pull start.

Yep, I tilled our garden with it. It did pretty well. I put the better of the 2 set of tines on it. When the rust came off, looks like the **** things tilled rocks at one point! Can you sharpen them? It did good though. Tilled the first part of the garden with the motor at about half throttle. Worked great...

 

[jas67]

Hey that looks great! Although I think I would paint the blue sometime down the road.
Wayne

How 'bout leave the engine blue, and paint the handles white for a patriotic theme :thumbsup:

 

[87iroc]

How 'bout leave the engine blue, and paint the handles white for a patriotic theme :thumbsup:

:laughing: I do still need to paint the handles.

Actually, this winter I'm thinking of tearing it down and having a friend who owns a powder coating company powder coat the tine hood and handles.

But I think I've got the patriotic thing covered as I've got white wheels! ****, I even splurged for 2 bucks on new chrome axle caps for it! The old ones were rusted beyond recognizable!

 

[2manyrocks]

You asked about sharpening your tines.

I have a few questions about that myself. I was wondering if the tines are hardened through and through or if there is an "edge" that is face hardened. I remember reading in a welding book that you could weld on another edge to implements, and I wasn't sure if or how this applied to tiller tines.

I didn't want to complicate things further in my previous post about your issue with there maybe being a spacer missing in the gearbox on your other tiller. The parts book shows two different parts schematics. You may want to look through the parts book to see if you can figure out if a spacer is missing because it looks like there are two variations on this.

I don't know of a service manual for the tiller transmission. As I read my service book, it seems to imply that you'd get the complete transmission assembly from the factory rather than do user service. Then there was there complete half price factory rebuild offer, but I suspect that went away when Garden Way filed bankruptcy.

Now that red, white and blue.....

 

[WayneB]

I will probably part out the HH60s as I don't care to throw parts at them to try to get them running. I may ask my brother about them as he's more small engine knowledgeable than me. He may be able to tinker between the 2 and get it fired with little effort. I will let you know on the pull start.

Yep, I tilled our garden with it. It did pretty well. I put the better of the 2 set of tines on it. When the rust came off, looks like the **** things tilled rocks at one point! Can you sharpen them? It did good though. Tilled the first part of the garden with the motor at about half throttle. Worked great...

Okay with the pull start, I have an old engine that I broke the pull start on so now I just use a rope and start it like they use to in the old days...LOL Most of the old engines are strong and can be fixed mainly the carb gets gummed up because gas was left in them. Rebuild the carb and most of them start right up.

I don't think it is possible to sharpen / reshape the tines. If they are pointed then they are worn down below the useable length and should be replaced at some point. Check the book and it shows what a good tine looks like and a worn pointed tine.

The spacing is an other issue with trying to put a new edge on a tine. I am sure you could maybe do it, but you are going to be missing areas in the tilling zone. Another thing you can do is take the outside tines and reverse them with the inside tines. Just a thought.

Glad to see you got it working and it tilled the garden for you. Make it work before you make it pretty. Suggest you check for lubricant leaks as you go and keep the level up in the transmission and tine areas.

Wayne

 

[2manyrocks]

A good coat of dirt and dust and you won't notice the paint thing.

 

[87iroc]

Thanks guys...

I believe the shaft in the second tiller may be what is called an assembled shaft vs a welded shaft...but I haven't confirmed that. I'll look at it once I get back out there.

I parked the tiller on a spot free area last night. Plan on checking for leaks tomorrow. Want to be sure I didn't fubar any of the seals on assy.

The tine shaft, I found out I need to reshim it...so I'm going to check my 'stock' to see if I forgot to reassemble something...I'll order gaskets for that at the same time I order the repair parts for the other one.

As for looks...it looks semi-perty... It has the 'I was once rusted and someone spray bombed me' look. Looks OK...but powder coating the tine shield or at least sand blasting it and putting new paint on it would be a much better approach than what I've done so far.

 

[2manyrocks]

WayneB, where did you find tines for your tiller? I'd prefer to get a good set and not some chinese mystery metal tines.

 

[87iroc]

Tore into the other tiller tonight. Trans is pretty fubared.

Rough list of parts I'd need to fix.

1) Shifter handle(hi lo)....it was rusted pretty bad and about ready to break at the pivot.
2) All seals and gaskets
3) Tine worm gear is shot....but could probably be used to sell it
4) Main shaft is assembled shaft. Rear worm gear is toast. Needs new main shaft or new rear worm gear.


All of that and I'd still have to get that Tecumseh engine running or sell it without an engine. I expect with an engine, could get 600 for it...maybe 550. Without an engine, could get 400 for it...

I'm thinking by the time I fix it, I may end up with just as much in parts and time as I would get out of it. I figure I've got 200 in it right now for the purchase.

I think I may have gotten taken on this one...but it donated parts to the other to get it rolling...so I'm not too regretful. So maybe say I have 150 in this one.

What would you guys do? Not sure how much the 'good' parts I have would go for on ebay.

Thanks,
Greg

 

[WayneB]

I would put it on Craig's List and see what happens. There is a butt for every seat!

Wayne

 

[2manyrocks]

Someone has a bunch of used T bilt parts on ebait. Maybe you find what you need cheap or sell what you have. I dunno.