Another 4400 front axle leaking!

[Wayne_H]

Well, it looks like the front axle seal near the wheel is leaking. I looked at the parts manual, and if I am looking at this right, just this seal should not be a big deal, with no special tools needed. Am I missing something?

thanks

Wayne

 

[kennyd]

Well, it looks like the front axle seal near the wheel is leaking. I looked at the parts manual, and if I am looking at this right, just this seal should not be a big deal, with no special tools needed. Am I missing something?

thanks

Wayne

Time to sell that and get a new 3720 CAB I think!

 

[RickB]

It's a great time of year to sell and install axle seals for compact tractors. The axles are mostly unvented, and the warmer weather expands the air and oil within the axle. Often a little oil will be pushed out of a swivel seal or axle seal. Sometimes the leak persists and a repair is indicated. Other times, the area can be cleaned up, the axle fill plug loosened to vent the axle, and life can go on.

 

[defed]

are the front axles vented in any way? i notice when i loosen the cap on my 4300, i can hear the pressure release...so i presume not.

 

[Wayne_H]

Yea, the axles are not vented, when you open the plug you hear the air venting. ( in or out...) This started in the winter when it was cold, still not sure how a seal can go bad unless something is worn, and with 500 hours I can't imagine that is the case.

So, DFKRUG, if you see this, to just replace the lower seal on the front axle looks easy, take off the wheel, remove bolts, and the entire thing comes apart. One snap ring and it should slide out... How hard can this be.....

Kenny: 40k for a new cab machine with 37HP is a bit much, looks like we can get a 50 HP cab machine for almost the same $$!!!!

regards

Wayne

 

[dfkrug]

One snap ring and it should slide out... How hard can this be.....

Yeah, the hub seal is easy, but you have to take off the #14 nut deep
inside the housing to get at the kingpin seal. After removing the
pressed in cap at the bottom.

 

[johnjd]

The pivot seal on the front axle is not an easy repair.It takes a special spanner nut socket to remove the spanner nut that holds the sections together

 

[dfkrug]

It takes a special spanner nut socket...

....like this.

The photo shows the #14 nut from the above parts diagram. I made my
own special tool out of some sched 40 pipe with 2 weld beads for teeth.
This was the toughest of all MFWD hubs I have been into (4 different ones).
More photos are in my 4300 thread.

 

[RickB]

This was the toughest of all MFWD hubs I have been into (4 different ones).

I agree. I have done dozens of Ford/New Holland, a few Kubotas, an older Deere 855, and one of these. The spanner nut was a PITA without the proper tool.

 

[defed]

figures....go outside today to do some stuff...i happen to look over at the tractor and there is all sorts of fluid on the floor. looks like a front axle seal!!!!! #33 (or similar - haven't looked at my axle spec #) in the previously posted jdparts diagram. from Dfkrug's thread, this appears to be the dreaded kingpin seal.

i changed the fluid last thursday (just over 1 wk ago) and used it a cpl times since, and nothing. it had been sitting a cpl days and all of a sudden, it leaks? it has gone from cold to hot in the last cpl of days...but can this really force the oil out of the seal?

there was maybe 1/2 a quart lost. i re-filled because i needed to use it, and put a clean pan under to catch any more leaks.

i'll have to call the dealer and see if this is covered under my 'drivetrain' warranty.

 

[arrabil]

That nut looks exactly like the one on my Ford trucks. Has anyone taken a standard 4wd spanner socket to it and seen if it fits?

 

[dfkrug]

I think it is a mistake to use hydraulic fluid instead of 90wt gear oil in
there. I think you would have less leaks with gear oil, and probably not
the corrosion I found in mine.

 

[defed]

i used the low vis hy-gard as recommended. i was thinking the same thing about the thin oil leaking....the old oil had water in it and was a nasty syrupy mess....it barely leaked out of the drain plugs, let alone a seal.

but, it still took a week for it to leak, and then that was sudden, when the tractor hadn't been used in 5 days.

 

[RickB]

I think it is a mistake to use hydraulic fluid instead of 90wt gear oil in
there. I think you would have less leaks with gear oil, and probably not
the corrosion I found in mine.

New Holland, Deere, and for the most part Kubota disagree.

 

[arrabil]

The thinner oil will get into crevices, bearing spaces, and between gear teeth far easier than 90w gear oil which is likely why its specified. There are all kinds of manual automotive transmissions that use ATF (also a hydraulic fluid) instead of MTF for the very same reason.

 

[Tunguska]

Interesting discussion. The MFWD on my 870 requires JD GL-5 gear lube. I wonder what changed over the years now that Lo-Vis Hygard is called for.

 

[arrabil]

I wonder what changed over the years now that Lo-Vis Hygard is called for.

Likely the same thing that happened with automotive trannys... the manufacturers realized they would get the same protection from thinner oils with less warranty repairs.

 

[dfkrug]

Likely the same thing that happened with automotive trannys... the manufacturers realized they would get the same protection from thinner oils with less warranty repairs.

There is another thing happening in the automotive realm: lower viscosity
oils in manual gearboxes help with gas mileage. Not an issue for tractors.

Many tractor owners manuals say either hyd oil or gear oil is OK. Others
come with hyd oil in the MFWD axle, but specify gear oil (my Kiotis). My
Kubotas specified gear oil, and my oldest one was pristime inside.

I know the 4x00s are specced for JD hyd oil, but this axle (Spicer) would
be better served with gear oil, IMO. There have been a lot of design
goofs on this tractor, and several re-designs of the MFWD axle in just a
few years. JD is certainly not infallible....I think they made a mistake (or
Spicer did), speccing hyd oil. I went to GL-5.

 

[arrabil]

I think they made a mistake (or Spicer did), speccing hyd oil. I went to GL-5.

Realistically, at 5mph, I doubt it matters one way or another. Did you use the same amount of gear oil as specified for hydraulic fluid? I'm wondering if you know if they expand at different rates?

 

[dfkrug]

Realistically, at 5mph, I doubt it matters one way or another. Did you use the same amount of gear oil as specified for hydraulic fluid? I'm wondering if you know if they expand at different rates?

I just fill until the dip stick or sight glass says I am full. It takes a while
to get the oil distributed. I don't measure the amount I put in, but it is
in the neighborhood of 5 qts.

Even at 5mph, your tractor's bevel gears are under a lot of pressure, pushing
and pulling heavy things. Max protection is called for, IMO, at least if you
want the tractor to last well past the warranty period.

BTW, gear oil is still specced for many many final drives in cars, where
the greatest gear forces are.