Flail mower problem

[gtrippleb]

I picked up a used value leader/betstco 53" flail mower a few months ago. I've used it about 3 times now. Before my first mowing I greased it and checked the pto gearbox which seemed like it had plenty of gear oil in it.

The last time I used it, I noticed while mowing that it seemed like the rotor isn't being turned by the belts anymore when there is pressure against the knives. The grass isn't being cut anymore and just from the slight vibration from the PTO moving at 540rpms, it seems like the rotor is kind of in a free turning mode. I took the belt cover off and I can move the belts and the rotor will move.

It almost seems almost like the pulley rotates the rotor shaft just enough to rotate but once it's under load, it might be slipping. I can hear the knives clank when I turn the pto off and the pto comes to a stop so it sounds like the rotor is turning. I noticed that when I lifted it off the ground and went over some small gravel, that I flung some gravel which also led me to believe the rotor is still turning.

It doesn't look like there is much to the mower so my thought is that either my blades are really dull, or some how I managed to break a key on a shaft so that the shaft still turns unless there is a slight load.

When I first got the mower I was trying to see where the best poisition on the 3pt was and in doing so, I mowed the ground a few times. I'm wondering if this may have been what caused my problem.

I thought I had read somewhere on TBN or somewhere else that there is a common bearing failure with these if not greased properly but I don't seem to find the thread anymore. Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

 

[teg]

My guess... "break a key on a shaft" Can you run it with the belt cover off?

I've seen two lawn mowers with the blades on backwards...:mur: I'm just saying...

 

[allen in texas]

When you engage the PTO does it pull the engine down just a bit?
It should if you haven't sheared anything.
A flail is quiet (relatively) but you should still be able to hear it running at full song.
Ditto on running it with the belt cover removed to see if everything turns.


There has to be more to this. A flail is really simple.
If it turns, it cuts grass, even with dull blades.

PS,
I've "mowed" the ground lots of times.
lots of dust and squealing belts but otherwise, no biggie

 

[gtrippleb]

When you engage the PTO does it pull the engine down just a bit?
It should if you haven't sheared anything.
A flail is quiet (relatively) but you should still be able to hear it running at full song.
Ditto on running it with the belt cover removed to see if everything turns.

There is quite a bit of difference in the noise from when I first mowed with it and when I run it now. It made more noise the first time I mowed with it. Now, it barely makes any noise. Hence the free wheeling reference.

I would have to say no to the pto pulling the engine down when I turn the pto on.

I haven't tried to run it with the belt cover off yet. The only thing I did was remove the belt cover and then tried to move the rotor by pulling on one side of the belts. Which I did see the rotor moving but since the pto shaft was still hooked up. It would only move so far. I didn't think about it until now to put the pto in the mid position to free the rear pto. Which should allow me to rotate the belts more.

I might have a chance to mess with it tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestions

 

[tree farmer]

I would give Keith a call at Betstco. They know their products well and stock a lot of spare parts.:thumbsup: I don't have the phone # handy, but he sells a lot on ebay, and lists his contact info there. Betstco is in Creswell, Or., just south of Eugene on I-5....Dan.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

With the tractor shut off,the mower raised and supported with jackstands and the PTO enguaged see if you can turn the drum the blades are mounted to. You shouldn't be able to. If it does turn look to seee if the drive pully is turning. If the pully isn't turning but the shaft on the drum is you sheared a key.
Bill

 

[greg_g]

When mine does that, it means the cheap V-belts I bought have stretched some more. I just tighten the idler pulley another few turns and go back to mowing. They'll eventually break, then I'll put on the proper banded belt that's supposed to be on there in the first place.

//greg//

 

[sodamo]

Keith, Betstco
1-877-876-7895 ext.312

 

[IslandTractor]

I'm thinking Greg has the right idea: check the belt tension or just tighten it a bit and see if it doesn't change performance.

 

[gtrippleb]

When mine does that, it means the cheap V-belts I bought have stretched some more. I just tighten the idler pulley another few turns and go back to mowing. They'll eventually break, then I'll put on the proper banded belt that's supposed to be on there in the first place.

//greg//

This seem to have worked. I didn't think they were that loose but after tighting them, the mower is back to working properly. It looks it might be time for some new belts as I tightened them and then mowed some and noticed it wasn't cutting very well again so I tightened them again. Once again it was cutting.

Is there a point that it can be to tight?

 

[IslandTractor]

This seem to have worked. I didn't think they were that loose but after tighting them, the mower is back to working properly. It looks it might be time for some new belts as I tightened them and then mowed some and noticed it wasn't cutting very well again so I tightened them again. Once again it was cutting.

Is there a point that it can be to tight?

As I recall I have mine set for about half inch deflection with my thumb pushing hard. If your belts are still slipping then you pretty clearly have a ways to go with tension unless they have oil or glaze on them. I got good quality US made replacements for about $17 each or something like that so it's not a bad idea to just get new ones and keep the old ones as emergency spares.

 

[fixit]

Have a look at the pulley the belts drive on the sides so if they are at the bottom of the groove they are shot and no amount of tensioning will make them grip :thumbsup:

 

[greg_g]

Is there a point that it can be to tight?

When they break, you'll know you've reached that point. My cheap V-belts ($6/ea) stretch like crazy. I'm just using them as a temporary measure until I can find the proper (manufacturer specified) belt. It's supposed to be a banded belt (two belts molded together), but I'm using a pair of V-belts as a stopgap. And they suck, but at least I'm still mowing while I track down the proper drive belt

//greg//

 

[IslandTractor]

My cheap V-belts ($6/ea) stretch like crazy. I'm just using them as a temporary measure until I can find the proper (manufacturer specified) belt. It's supposed to be a banded belt (two belts molded together), but I'm using a pair of V-belts as a stopgap. And they suck, but at least I'm still mowing while I track down the proper drive belt

//greg//

I replaced my stock belts with US made belts from ?Colorado based major belt manufacturer (blanking on the name). It is possible to use banded belts (three across in my case) but the banded belts are quite a bit extra as I recall and typically not found in places like NAPA. I agree the banded ones are probably best but single high quality belts work fine too.

 

[Dead Horse]

If you over grease the rotor and some gets slung onto the belts you will get the kind of performance you are talking about. The grease will ruin the belts too, especially if they are cheap belts.

Belts are cheaper than bearings, though!

My Seppi has 5 belts. It cut ok with two good ones and a bad one remaining, before I bought a new set.

 

[sodamo]

gtrippleb

I have a VL manual in pdf format. If you'd like a copy, PM me your email.

David

 

[gtrippleb]

So far so good with the tighting of the belts.

My plan was to pick up some new ones this weekend from an industrial supplier but didn't make it there before they closed at noon today. I'm sure I could get the belts at TSC, Advance, Autozone, ASC, or NAPA, but figured they would be of better quality if I got them from one of the local industrial suppliers.

I assume that the previous owner didn't change them but I could be wrong. The numbers on the belts are still readable so he might have. If I google the numbers on the belt, most of the results looked to be an A/C belt for a few car models.

 

[gtrippleb]

So it's been 2 months since I changed the belts. I've used it a handful of times since I've changed them the latest being about two weeks ago to mow some of the lawn and the side of the road.

I go out last night to do some mowing and it works for about 5-10 minutes and then it starts to feel like it's free-wheeling as my pto is about at the 540 rpm speed but by my grass isn't being cut. So I turn the pto off and go check the belts thinking that maybe they've started to stretch or something.

When I take the side cover off, I notice that the bearing that slides on the the lower shaft that the bottom pulley fits on, has somehow come out of the pulley. My thought was maybe the belts didn't have enough tention on the pulley or something as I'm not sure how that bearing actually stays on the shaft. What I am calling a bearing has 4 or 5 screws in it with what looks like a flat washer sandwiched between two 1/2 inch think pieces of 2 inch in diameter metal. There's maybe a 1/4 inch or so of space that I can see the threads on the screws. I assume that the screws some how clamp/regulate the pressure of the bearing on the shaft?

So I loosen everything up and put the bearing back on, put the pulley back on along with the belts and tighten everything back up. I'm thinking I've fixed it so I go try and mow again. I turn the pto on and I notice that it feels like it usually does when it's working correctly. Once again after about 5-10 minutes, it feels like it's free-wheeling again. So I shut the pto off. Get off the tractor and take a look. Sure enough, the bearing has come out of the pulley again.

Sorry I don't have any pictures of what I'm talking about but I'm sure someone has an idea. It was to late to get some pictures when I parked the tractor and used the lawnmower to finish mowing.

I was surprised when I first looked at the pulleys after I bought it and didn't really notice any set screws or keys that I've seen on other shaft/pulley combinations.

So if anyone has any ideas on what I can do/need to do to stop this bearing, or whatever it's called, from coming out of the pulley it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[IslandTractor]

Gotta get some pictures posted. Yours is not one of the common flail mowers so I doubt people will be able to help without a series of photos to orient them.

 

[gtrippleb]

I'll get some posted tonight when I get home from work. I'm thinking it should be a simple solution.

Thanks