Looking at a used 2007 CK20- good deal?

[Dargo]

The average lawnmower is gasoline powered while the CK20 is diesel powered. Big difference.....

Don

Oh really. You may want to do a bit of research. You can pickup a 27 hp lawnmower at a box store for a few thousand. My smallest, non-push, lawnmower is powered by a 28 hp Kubota diesel. A 21 hp Kioti has more power?? I know quite well what a 21 hp diesel is capable of and what is not capable of. Sorry guys, facts are facts. I strongly stand by my statement that that price is waaaay out of sight.

 

[Dargo]

If you consider that Kubota BX23/24 mini TLBs get sold for $12-14K with a few years and couple hundred hours on them it doesn't seem that far off either. The Kubota's definitely have remarkable resale, especially the BX23/24 range but considering the added capabilities of a CK TLB the price doesn't look waaaay high. Maybe a biiiiit high though. I'd offer $12.5 and try to settle for $13 plus change assuming the dealer needs to make some profit.

I'm not really talking about Kubota since a Kioti obviously will be fine for the OP. I'm just talking price. In today's economy, that price is a few grand high. I can't say much about the people who seem to fail to understand actual torque and hp. If an engine puts out more hp and torque, it matters naught if it's gas or diesel. I just think the OP will be disappointed in the power besides the price.

 

[IslandTractor]

I just think the OP will be disappointed in the power besides the price.

Can your 28hp mower do this? :laughing:

My CK20 was only 20hp. My complaint was mostly about the lack of a third range (mid) for the HST. My mowing speed was slow only because I had to travel in low, I don't recall problems actually cutting grass efficiently. It did fine otherwise and did most of the work in clearing three or four acres of brush, stumps etc.

I agree 20hp ain't much but the CK20 gets a lot out of those 20 horses.

 

[Dmace]

If an engine puts out more hp and torque, it matters naught if it's gas or diesel.

Wrong!
This should be split into another thread since it can go on for days but something should be said.
There is a HUGE difference in power made in a Diesel vs. Gas engine. When gas ignites in the combustion chamber, it makes a quick flash bang that basically "slaps" the piston down. When Diesel ignites, it burns rather then explodes and continues to push the piston down the entire stroke.

How is relates is how each engine reacts under a "load" or how it produces "work". When you put a load on a Gas engine, the work it produces and the hp it produces dramatically drops vs. a Diesel engine that works just as hard under load. That 28hp gas engine probably makes that power for a split second at very high rpms and could not sustain that power under load vs. that 21hp Diesel that makes 21hp from barely above idle all the way to the red line.

Ever wonder why they don't even make a gas powered CUT anymore...

 

[Gittyup]

HP is only as good as how it's converted to drive the wheels and the PTO. On most riding mowers, belts are used. Huge amounts of HP are lost in those belts. Not so much the case when you have drive shafts and real gears. To compare a real tractor with gears and driveshafts to any belt driven machine is just plain silly. My old 10 HP Gravely with direct drive from the motor to the transmission had way more power than any of today's 20+ HP riding mowers. Also, diesel power and torque curves are much different that gasoline, meaning it's also silly to think HP for HP they are the same.


So, to the OP, the CK20 obviously has adequate power or they wouldn't sell so good and get such good reviews. This one is gear, which helps even more. I agree the price is just OK. But, if you can get it for $13K or so, you'd be getting a lot of tractor for your money. Price out that rig new. Easily over $20K. You won't find a better digger in that size machine by any brand. Now the TYM you are considering is really a little more tractor. The reason to go with the TYM would be the extra HP. But, since mowing isn't a real big use for this machine PTO HP is less important. The backhoe then is the the difference (BTW HP means nothing for backhoe work). Either will meet your needs. I personally would have a hard time not taking the backhoe. A backhoe is really nice to have around when you want it. Then again I realy like the size-to-HP of the TYM T293 as well.

 

[JDGreenGrass]

The OP clearly says that the BH is part of the deal which, IMO, is a good and decent value.

Take the BH out of the deal and the price is high.

 

[Dargo]

Wrong!
This should be split into another thread since it can go on for days but something should be said.
There is a HUGE difference in power made in a Diesel vs. Gas engine. When gas ignites in the combustion chamber, it makes a quick flash bang that basically "slaps" the piston down. When Diesel ignites, it burns rather then explodes and continues to push the piston down the entire stroke.

How is relates is how each engine reacts under a "load" or how it produces "work". When you put a load on a Gas engine, the work it produces and the hp it produces dramatically drops vs. a Diesel engine that works just as hard under load. That 28hp gas engine probably makes that power for a split second at very high rpms and could not sustain that power under load vs. that 21hp Diesel that makes 21hp from barely above idle all the way to the red line.

Ever wonder why they don't even make a gas powered CUT anymore...

Since you were rather rude, I'll just flat tell you; you don't know squat. Take the time to look it up instead of shooting your mouth off. If engine A has more HP and torque than engine B, it will do more work; period. To think differently is simply foolish! What you say makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You seriously need to study a bit.

Modern tractors are diesel because of the fact they last longer and have more low RPM torque. However, at speed, a gasoline engine can put out just as much torque in this class of engine. Reason two is because almost nobody would buy a gasoline tractor anymore. Are you going to sit behind your keyboard and tell me that all of these 50, 60, 70 year old gas powered tractors are junk and can do no work??? You'll have legions of enemies and people laughing at you if so. Add a heavy flywheel to a gasoline engine in a tractor and, similar to a diesel, you have a lot of mass inertia helping you do work. Sorry dude, but you really need to do some studying. 20 hp is 20 hp and if the torque is the same, they'll do the same work. Exactly how do you think the word "torque" is defined???

 

[Josh61513]

A 25 hp riding mower with a 48" deck is just sign that you have no idea what you need and you like to buy gasoline. The old JD 316s/318s are great mowers with plenty of power and "just" 18 hp. Riding mowers have more and more power every year because the hp sticker sells them to clueless buyers who think the extra power makes them the envy of their neighbors. Nevermind that if you mounted a torque cell inline with the engine they would likely never use more than 20 hp over the life of the mower.

That said, Dargo is correct in that hp is hp and torque is torque regardless of what fuel source it comes from. The things you've mentioned Dmace are accounted for in the measurement of the output of the engines. You are more likely to be disappointed in the power of a gas engine at or near idle vs. a diesel engine at or near idle but if both engines are operated at the rated speeds power should be identical.

My CK20S (just 22 hp) is tremendously powerful in low range. I've yet to stall it pulling my middle buster plow, I run out of traction first. I wouldn't complain about a few more horsepower for use with some PTO attachments but the tractor is very capable overall.

When you're using your FEL or backhoe the hydraulic pump is only capable of using a portion of engine horsepower anyway. This is even more relevant on the JD/Kubotas of similar size. If you buy your tractor without regard for its capabilities other than horsepower are you any wiser than the guy buying the 25hp riding mower from Lowes?

Sounds like an ok price for the '07 CK20 with FEL, backhoe, brush cutter, and back blade. $13,500 would be a good price. To purchase the same equipment new would run somewhere around $18,000.

 

[Dargo]

A 25 hp riding mower with a 48" deck is just sign that you have no idea what you need and you like to buy gasoline. The old JD 316s/318s are great mowers with plenty of power and "just" 18 hp. Riding mowers have more and more power every year because the hp sticker sells them to clueless buyers who think the extra power makes them the envy of their neighbors. Nevermind that if you mounted a torque cell inline with the engine they would likely never use more than 20 hp over the life of the mower.

That said, Dargo is correct in that hp is hp and torque is torque regardless of what fuel source it comes from. The things you've mentioned Dmace are accounted for in the measurement of the output of the engines. You are more likely to be disappointed in the power of a gas engine at or near idle vs. a diesel engine at or near idle but if both engines are operated at the rated speeds power should be identical.

My CK20S (just 22 hp) is tremendously powerful in low range. I've yet to stall it pulling my middle buster plow, I run out of traction first. I wouldn't complain about a few more horsepower for use with some PTO attachments but the tractor is very capable overall.

When you're using your FEL or backhoe the hydraulic pump is only capable of using a portion of engine horsepower anyway. This is even more relevant on the JD/Kubotas of similar size. If you buy your tractor without regard for its capabilities other than horsepower are you any wiser than the guy buying the 25hp riding mower from Lowes?

Sounds like an ok price for the '07 CK20 with FEL, backhoe, brush cutter, and back blade. $13,500 would be a good price. To purchase the same equipment new would run somewhere around $18,000.

Thank you for seeing that I am NOT slamming the Kioti tractor. It's been this way for years. You can have the same discussion about price and hp in any other forum and nobody is attacked for pointing out facts on hp/torque and people seem interested in finding the better deals. In the Kioti area it seems that most people are still vicious and take any comment that's not slobbering praise for Kioti as an attack on their tractor. They need to get over themselves and understand that they actually run people away from buying a Kioti with their rabid attacks.

I hate to single him out, but IslandTractor is quite aware of my high regard for the Kioti brand and Korean brands in general. He too recognized that I was not attacking the brand. However, if a guy looks around, I assure you that newer, better (DK series) and more powerful Kioti tractors can be had for the money the OP is talking about. I'll leave it at that and, unfortunately, write the Kioti area off as being the same it was 5 years ago; far more aggressive and argumentative than any other brand area.

 

[IslandTractor]

I hate to single him out, but IslandTractor is quite aware of my high regard for the Kioti brand and Korean brands in general. .

Yeah, Dargo does harbor a secret wish to own a big Kioti and gets cranky whenever he visits here and realizes he doesn't have one mostly because his local dealer was a dork. He is now forced to live vicariously through his daughter who owns a sweet new Kia Sorento. Maybe she should let him drive it occasionally.:thumbsup: