10% Ethanol, Heads Up!

[keegs]

The water supply was home owners wells. Nothing managed by a government entity.

The G'ment only slight responsibility was in the failure to properly regulate the underground fuel tanks AND the requirement to use MTBE which is highly water soluble. The station with the leaking fuel tank was the entity that was mostly at fault but the problem with fuel tank leaks like this is that many times the company has long gone out of business and there are no funds available from the company to fix the problem.

In this case the county brought in water lines to the effect houses. I cannot remember if they home owners had to pay.

Later,
Dan

Dan,

The government mandated an oxygenate but never required it to be MTBE. That was the industry's decision. You may want to check me on this but as I recall it, the feedstock for the compound is a by product of the refining process and would otherwise have been handled as hazardous waste.

There was a battle royal during the Bush years over whether and by how much there should be a limit on the industry's liability for MTBE contamination. Again it's been a while but I think the republicans lost that battle which if that's in fact the case, may be of some consolation to those who suffered a loss.

 

[mmurphy]

CBO is the Congressional Budget Office. It usually is above the political fray. Even if the number is wrong it is hard to believe that it would be hugely wrong.

Later,
Dan

Hhhhmmmm! Do you want to beleive that also? I have not even heard die hard conservatives cry about that amount. If it is true some ones fingers are in the cookie jar.(Goldman Sachs??? They seem to play both sides real well!)
Just a couple hours ago, I heard on the radio, it was a push for bio diesel about they made in to the positive numbers of energy produced compared to neg values of petroleum.
Now even though I am a supporter of biofuels, it is that kind of crap that goes on both sides that makes it hard for me to trust studies that some corporation has funded a college professor or who ever is a brain wiz with a degree that thinks they can pull bull crap over the working class people they wipe there feet on. Well, that was good therapy, I feel better already!
Just look at the news. One week we are heading for a double dip recession. The next week, things look a little more optimistic. Two different studies I am sure.

 

[timswi]

The CBO is usually in the ballpark..Not always correct. This is a current useage report not a forcast. So I'm going to say that they are not that far off.

Keep in mind that cash subsidies are used to make a non-profitable product profitable, think of the current so called green energies, even Spain is backing off of them given that they have no way to stand on their own. They drain cash for a desired outcome.

Tax subsidies are used so as not to hammer profits already being made....A VERY big difference.

My mileage drops more that 2-3% probably 8-10%

I just ducked that beer bottle someone threw at me

 

[mmurphy]

No beer bottles thrown here:thumbsup:
The truth is, it is a good thing not every one agrees all the time. It keeps things more open. I would rather people do have a mind of their own.
Some vehicles will lose mileage and others will not.

 

[masscity]

We have both ethanol and non-ethanol here. I drive my Dodge diesel, but

buy non-ethanol for my small gas engines, because of what I've read on

these forums.

My buddy has a Kawasaki enduro 450 that he drives to work a lot.

With ethanol he gets 51 mpg and with non-ethanol he gets 60 mpg.

 

[Skyco]

The truth is, it is a good thing not every one agrees all the time. It keeps things more open. I would rather people do have a mind of their own.
Some vehicles will lose mileage and others will not.

See thats the thing- if people had a CHOICE in what fuel to buy I'd be all in favor of ethanol laced fuel, those that want it can have it, and those that don't want it aren't being forced to buy it.

The industry should look at swapping all the mid grade pumps to deliver ethanol laced regular grade fuel, have regular unleaded 100% petroleum in the regular pumps, and high test 100% petroleum in the premium pumps.
I wouldn't miss the mid-grade, in fact you can make your own if you insist on it, buy 70% regular and 30% premium and voila- mid grade. What you didn't know it didn't take a 50/50 mix to get the mid octane even though they price it like it does?

Price them all according to what it actually costs to make it, let people decide which they'll buy. What a concept

 

[MossRoad]

It takes one bushel of corn to make 2.8 gallons of ethanol.
There are 76,000 BTUs in a gallon of ethanol.
2.8 x 76,000 = 212,800 BTUs in the ethanol we made from one bushel of corn.

There are between 7500 and 8500 BTUs in a pound of corn.
There are 56 pounds of corn in a bushel.
7500BTU x 56lb = 420,000BTU
8500BTU x 56lb = 476,000BTU
Using the lower rate of 420,000BTU lets subtract the BTUs in the ethanol we made above from the BTUs in the raw bushel of corn.

420,000 - 212,000 = 208,000

We LOST 208,000 BTU by converting the corn into ethanol.
We LOST 50% of the available energy in that bushel of corn!

What's so hard to understand about those numbers? Converting corn into liquid automobile fuel loses energy. It does not gain energy.

 

[timswi]

It takes one bushel of corn to make 2.8 gallons of ethanol.
There are 76,000 BTUs in a gallon of ethanol.
2.8 x 76,000 = 212,800 BTUs in the ethanol we made from one bushel of corn.

There are between 7500 and 8500 BTUs in a pound of corn.
There are 56 pounds of corn in a bushel.
7500BTU x 56lb = 420,000BTU
8500BTU x 56lb = 476,000BTU
Using the lower rate of 420,000BTU lets subtract the BTUs in the ethanol we made above from the BTUs in the raw bushel of corn.

420,000 - 212,000 = 208,000

We LOST 208,000 BTU by converting the corn into ethanol.
We LOST 50% of the available energy in that bushel of corn!

What's so hard to understand about those numbers? Converting corn into liquid automobile fuel loses energy. It does not gain energy.

A moderator in the fight...I like it.:thumbsup:

 

[mmurphy]

It takes one bushel of corn to make 2.8 gallons of ethanol.
There are 76,000 BTUs in a gallon of ethanol.
2.8 x 76,000 = 212,800 BTUs in the ethanol we made from one bushel of corn.

There are between 7500 and 8500 BTUs in a pound of corn.
There are 56 pounds of corn in a bushel.
7500BTU x 56lb = 420,000BTU
8500BTU x 56lb = 476,000BTU
Using the lower rate of 420,000BTU lets subtract the BTUs in the ethanol we made above from the BTUs in the raw bushel of corn.

420,000 - 212,000 = 208,000

We LOST 208,000 BTU by converting the corn into ethanol.
We LOST 50% of the available energy in that bushel of corn!

What's so hard to understand about those numbers? Converting corn into liquid automobile fuel loses energy. It does not gain energy.

Good analogy but, remember the best part of the corn is going back to DDG for feed value to cattle. Last I remember on the petroleum side, it takes lots of energy also to make it in the fuel tank.

Skyco, Iowa being one of the big producers of ethanol, does have the choice for ethanol laced or regular gas.:thumbsup:

 

[MossRoad]

Good analogy but, remember the best part of the corn is going back to DDG for feed value to cattle. Last I remember on the petroleum side, it takes lots of energy also to make it in the fuel tank.

Skyco, Iowa being one of the big producers of ethanol, does have the choice for ethanol laced or regular gas.:thumbsup:

If we would burn the corn to heat our homes we could burn the natural gas in our cars. That would maximize the BTUs in the corn and and lessen our use of foreign oil. The U.S. has ample supplies of natural gas and corn. We just need to use them in the most efficient ways.