What driveway material would you use?

[beppington]

At my new 21-acre jungle-like vacant property, so far I've bush-hogged a two-lane trail I can drive in on just fine, & I've established exactly where the future house will go.

So, right now this ~700' driveway is mostly dirt in the tire tracks with a weed/ grass center strip.

It's fairly level & smooth now, but when it rained recently I found that there are at least 3 spots that get very muddy (very close to stuck!) & hold water very well (clay underneath those spots I guess?)

Starting all-new like this, what material would you use to finalize this driveway?:

- Nothing; just grade it occassionally to improve the 3 mud holes? I don't think the mud will be fixed/ eliminated without bringing in some other material for at least those 3 mud spots.
- Limerock; I could work it with my tractor as needed, but not crazy about the dust.
- Crushed concrete; I like the idea of recycling, & its dust is less than limerock. Does crushed concrete need a base of any kind, or just dump it on the ground & level it?
- Other rock types?
- Pavement; A "final solution", but costs hi $, & future heavy trucks on it might damage it?
- Any other alternatives?

Thank you ...

 

[brin]

First you should remove all of the top soil on your road down to clay then add a large stone base ..I have forgotten the number of the stone but it is just a bit smaller than your fist , then this should be packed down and the trucks delivering and spreading it should accomplish a lot of compacting. Once that is compacted you need to put down " Crusher Run about 3 or 4 inches deep and then compact it and grade it so you have a crown in the middle of your road to allow for run off. The crusher run has fines in it and will set up once it rains on it almost like concrete..I have done this procedure with 3 roads so far and it has held up for me with very little maintenance needed..just a touch up from time to time..

At my new 21-acre jungle-like vacant property, so far I've bush-hogged a two-lane trail I can drive in on just fine, & I've established exactly where the future house will go.

So, right now this ~700' driveway is mostly dirt in the tire tracks with a weed/ grass center strip.

It's fairly level & smooth now, but when it rained recently I found that there are at least 3 spots that get very muddy (very close to stuck!) & hold water very well (clay underneath those spots I guess?)

Starting all-new like this, what material would you use to finalize this driveway?:

- Nothing; just grade it occassionally to improve the 3 mud holes? I don't think the mud will be fixed/ eliminated without bringing in some other material for at least those 3 mud spots.
- Limerock; I could work it with my tractor as needed, but not crazy about the dust.
- Crushed concrete; I like the idea of recycling, & its dust is less than limerock. Does crushed concrete need a base of any kind, or just dump it on the ground & level it?
- Other rock types?
- Pavement; A "final solution", but costs hi $, & future heavy trucks on it might damage it?
- Any other alternatives?

Thank you ...

 

[beppington]

Are "fines" smaller material? I guess it settles into the bigger material & helps compact the whole mix?

 

[brin]

Are "fines" smaller material? I guess it settles into the bigger material & helps compact the whole mix?

Actually fines are Portland cement and yes other small bits that fall into the larger material and lock it all together..If you go that route , when you order the crusher run , the smaller grave, I think it is #57 but it has been some time now, be sure and ask them if it is wet ..It goes down and packs really good if it is a wet mixture to start with. I forgot to mention you could put down a fabric on the road after the top soil has been removed and before your first load of the larger stones..It is a weed block fabric and it keeps the larger gravel from sinking so far down in the clay and by the way that is why you remove the top soil since if you don't all of your gravel will be embedded into the soil and you have a mess and a lot of wasted money.

 

[dawoodwa]

In middle Georgia we commonly use several layers of different stone. Our stone here is crushed granite which is a bit harder than limestone.

For a base I usually put down about 6" of surge stone, this is a material that is similar to crusher run(GAB, graded aggregate base, is another term), but the rocks are larger. You don't want to run over this with a passenger vehicle but it holds up well under large trucks. I have hauled this for many logging roads and construction site entrances.

Over the base I usually put down a couple of inches of 57 stone, this is a grade of rock that consists of 3 different sizes, 5's, 6's, and 7's. Most of this rock is washed so there isn't any dust. This can be left as the top layer but fast traffic displaces a lot of the rocks, especially in curves and on hills.

The top layer is usually crusher run, I try not to haul this during extremely wet weather because the dust in crusher run draws in water like a sponge and you wind up paying for a lot of water weight. I haul with a tandem and there is a considerable difference in the volume when the crusher run is wet and when it is dry. The biggest problems with crusher run is on hills, the fines tend to wash out rather quickly.

For my own roads I usually use 57 stone with a #4 base put down after I have removed the topsoil. Sometimes I will plow the 4's in and then run a compactor over them before putting down the 57 stone.

 

[brin]

You are right about crusher run soaking up water but in my case I was glad mine was wet the last time I put it down since it packed right away and the fines did not blow away waiting for rain and this road was about 2,000 ft. long and that is too much watering to even attempt if I could even get a hose to it...so I would just say it depends on the weather and his access to water..The extra weight whatever that was sure was worth it for me...the double axle dump truck was full...

In middle Georgia we commonly use several layers of different stone. Our stone here is crushed granite which is a bit harder than limestone.
For a base I usually put down about 6" of surge stone, this is a material that is similar to crusher run(GAB, graded aggregate base, is another term), but the rocks are larger. You don't want to run over this with a passenger vehicle but it holds up well under large trucks. I have hauled this for many logging roads and construction site entrances.

Over the base I usually put down a couple of inches of 57 stone, this is a grade of rock that consists of 3 different sizes, 5's, 6's, and 7's. Most of this rock is washed so there isn't any dust. This can be left as the top layer but fast traffic displaces a lot of the rocks, especially in curves and on hills.

The top layer is usually crusher run, I try not to haul this during extremely wet weather because the dust in crusher run draws in water like a sponge and you wind up paying for a lot of water weight. I haul with a tandem and there is a considerable difference in the volume when the crusher run is wet and when it is dry. The biggest problems with crusher run is on hills, the fines tend to wash out rather quickly.

For my own roads I usually use 57 stone with a #4 base put down after I have removed the topsoil. Sometimes I will plow the 4's in and then run a compactor over them before putting down the 57 stone.

 

[Egon]

After the organic material is removed you may want to establish some ditches and decide if culverts may be required. Try and make the ditches capable of draining water. Use the material from the ditches to build up the road. Grade and pack the road and try to keep a crown on it and also nice and smooth. Then pick your finish material.

The recycled concrete sounds good if the price is right.:thumbsup:

 

[beppington]

Decades ago the "driveway" I mentioned having bush-hogged was a driveway/ road; My bush-hogging just re-claimed it is all. It was VERY overgrown, though, with some pretty decent sized trees growing on it.

I could tell where the road was, though, because ... During that previous usage, & now with me & my new traffic going over it again, this driveway is a lower than most of the terrain around it; Anywhere from 1"-8" lower. I know that's causing some (all) of the mud problems, & the ditch suggestion, with piling up the removed ditch dirt onto the driveway, should help reduce/ eliminate the mud.

I do know I need one culvert, too.

 

[slaveToHorses]

Around here the gravel companies grade by dimension, so the bottom rock is 2-1/2" and the surface rock is "3/4minus".

My neighbor did the roads in his commercial nursery with recycled roadway asphalt. He spread it down with his dump truck and then rented a roller unit to compact it. The sun did the rest. It has held up to some serious traffic for years now.

They are always tearing up roads around here so the stuff is readily available, I am told.

 

[Skyco]

Actually fines are Portland cement and yes other small bits that fall into the larger material and lock it all together...

They might add Portland cement where you buy it but for the rest of us I wouldn't count on it. Crusher run I've bought does not have Portland cement in it, just rock dust or "fines" as they call them and all sizes up through about 1.5". Portland cement has to be manufactured in a kiln, just being "fine" rock dust isn't the same thing at all.
Crusher run is a generic term, if you ask for crusher run at the Vulcan quarry I use they smirk at you...their "professional" term is ABC- Aggregate Base Course and there are several other terms used throughout the country


I am curious about the "crushed concrete" mentioned- an outfit here is selling that stuff way cheaper than "new" crushed stone..wondered where the concrete came from and how they get the steel reinforcing out of it, or do they?

 

[dstig1]

They might add Portland cement where you buy it but for the rest of us I wouldn't count on it. Crusher run I've bought does not have Portland cement in it, just rock dust or "fines" as they call them and all sizes up through about 1.5". Portland cement has to be manufactured in a kiln, just being "fine" rock dust isn't the same thing at all.
Crusher run is a generic term, if you ask for crusher run at the Vulcan quarry I use they smirk at you...their "professional" term is ABC- Aggregate Base Course and there are several other terms used throughout the country

They call it "Class 5 fill" around here. ~3/4" Crushed limestone with fines.

 

[inveresk]

Many counties publish guides to private road construction. Check with yours. Here are two links to the type of guide that might be available in your locality.

http://ucanr.org/freepubs/docs/8262.pdf
http://www.dfr.state.nc.us/publications/laymans_guide_to_access_road.pdf

Talk to local contractors. They'll usually be happy to share information on best practice and cost of materials.

I'm a fan of geotextile. Used correctly it can save money by reducing the amount of materials. Here's a link to a guide by one manufacturer, Typar. You might also want to check out Nilex or talk to their local office. They'll provide a model spec for your soil conditions if you brief them and they'll give you a quote for the geotextile, delivered.

http://www.typargeotextiles.com/PDFs/TG-OverviewBro.pdf.

Have a chat with your local building inspection office. They're usually a good source of information.

In short, do your homework and tap into sources of local expertise and knowledge. It'll help ensure that you construct your drive right first time and minimize maintenance time and expense.

And good luck in developing your new property.

 

[beppington]

I am curious about the "crushed concrete" mentioned- an outfit here is selling that stuff way cheaper than "new" crushed stone..wondered where the concrete came from and how they get the steel reinforcing out of it, or do they?

Just old concrete from various sources. I understand they use a giant magnet to try to remove the metal from it, but not positive about that.

 

[beppington]

I appreciate all the replies & info!

I notice nobody suggested the pavement (aka blacktop) option I listed. Why not?

 

[dcyrilc]

I appreciate all the replies & info!

I notice nobody suggested the pavement (aka blacktop) option I listed. Why not?

Nothing wrong with crushed asphalt. Once I'm ready, I'll be using somewhere around 10,000 yards of it. I have an in with one of the local asphalt companies and have free access to grindings any time they are working in my area. Will probably be starting next summer.


Also, go back and look at post #9.

Around here the gravel companies grade by dimension, so the bottom rock is 2-1/2" and the surface rock is "3/4minus".

My neighbor did the roads in his commercial nursery with recycled roadway asphalt. He spread it down with his dump truck and then rented a roller unit to compact it. The sun did the rest. It has held up to some serious traffic for years now.

They are always tearing up roads around here so the stuff is readily available, I am told.

 

[crazyal]

Is this "crusher run" the same as "bank run?" If so, I've had very poor results with it during heavy rains. It's almost as bad as mud.

Bank run is gravel that a stream pushed into a bank. It's normally round stones of all sizes and is good for fill but not so much for a road. Crusher run is gravel that has been sent through a rock crusher and has had other types of dirt added to it. because the stones are fractured rock they interlock together. the bank run being round stones act more like marbles and want to roll.

Around here I wouldn't even think about putting anything down without using fabric. Maybe some larger rock to fill in the low spots and muddy areas and some fines to smooth it out then fabric topped with crusher run. If you can afford it you'll want at least 6" of fill on top of the fabric otherwise you'll have to be real careful if you want to use a box blade on it. It's even possible to just wait for the muddy spots to dry out and put the fabric down and crusher on top of it. Just make sure water doesn't stand on the road but sheds off.

 

[lilranch2001]

Actually fines are Portland cement and yes other small bits that fall into the larger material and lock it all together..If you go that route , when you order the crusher run , the smaller grave, I think it is #57 but it has been some time now, be sure and ask them if it is wet ..It goes down and packs really good if it is a wet mixture to start with. I forgot to mention you could put down a fabric on the road after the top soil has been removed and before your first load of the larger stones..It is a weed block fabric and it keeps the larger gravel from sinking so far down in the clay and by the way that is why you remove the top soil since if you don't all of your gravel will be embedded into the soil and you have a mess and a lot of wasted money.

I have never heard of portland added to limestone, I think what you are seeing is very fine crushed limestone, leftover from the crushing process and added to the small -1" fractions

 

[Skyco]

Crusher run is gravel that has been sent through a rock crusher and has had other types of dirt added to it. .

Not around here, no dirt is added to "crusher run". And really it isn't made from gravel here either..but it might be a regional thing.
The quarry blasts huge chunks of granite out of the pit and trucks them up to the crusher...this is a huge noisy contraption with a wobbling cone inside a cone...the rock gets crushed between the two cones. The "crusher run" is run out a conveyer to a huge pile right next to it where they load the trucks with giant loaders...
I always feel a little strange going in there with my little 5 ton capacity dump trailer and lining up with the 18 wheeler dump trucks:ashamed: Then the loader operator scoops up just a cornerful for my 5 tons...that scoop must hold 25 tons or more!

 

[skipmarcy]

They might add Portland cement where you buy it but for the rest of us I wouldn't count on it. Crusher run I've bought does not have Portland cement in it, just rock dust or "fines" as they call them and all sizes up through about 1.5". Portland cement has to be manufactured in a kiln, just being "fine" rock dust isn't the same thing at all.
Crusher run is a generic term, if you ask for crusher run at the Vulcan quarry I use they smirk at you...their "professional" term is ABC- Aggregate Base Course and there are several other terms used throughout the country


I am curious about the "crushed concrete" mentioned- an outfit here is selling that stuff way cheaper than "new" crushed stone..wondered where the concrete came from and how they get the steel reinforcing out of it, or do they?

I bought & sold the crushed concrete for awhile when working with my tractor in Florida a few years back. They were tearing-up the slab on a big K-Mart store and they had this huge machine there that crushed it. It did use magnets to grab the metal as the concrete ran by on conveyors - it slung the metal out in one pile and the concrete in another big pile. The "gravel" it made was excellent for driveways etc. but had one flaw - the machine didn't get 100% of the metal out - not ideal for a driveway !! The few I did with it had to be walked and metal picked up.

 

[Kendrick]

my friend used to work in this field. I asked about my dirt road the first thing he said you HAVE to do is deal with drianage. if it doesnt drain right your rock just sinks in to the mud. I still have a dirt road I have put 2 water bars in and when it rains i only have a fiew puddles that give me problems 1500' of drive

Since I got the water bars in the neighbors water that was draining in on my low spot no longer sticks around to make it a mud wreseling pit. and the down flow from the hil is out in to the yard. I have a 8-10' open trench from the first water bar to 2 4" pipes that drain the water to the creek. every rain or 2 I have to dig out a wheel barro's worth of sand/gravel that gets washed off my neighbors drive. I have been putting that in the puddles as well as ditching where neccessary to re route the rain watter off the hill/mountain to the prescribed creek/drainage ducts. those 3 things have made that road pretty dang solid in 2 years or less. the fines I get off the neighbors runoff have mixed with the surface soil to make it close to concrete.... it still gets mushy enough to see tire tracks but thats about it. heh plus the water bars work for keeping the delivery people's speed down to where it should be for a dirt road. if not you hear language that a sailer would admire right after the noises no suspention system should make :laughing: