At Home In The Woods

[CurlyDave]

How is it people complain about the economy but don't go out and work. Obey is standing there with money in hand and the BOSS is basically saying i don't need your money. BUT the guys sitting at home with nothing to do probably does need money.

No matter how bad the boss, or how much the worker needs the money, the boss is certain to find out about this side deal. And, given his already proven attitude, is going to take a dim view of the worker undercutting him.

I would be very wary of this situation. Possibly the workers can recommend a free-lancer, which would resolve most of the issues here, without getting them in trouble with a bad boss.

 

[woodlandfarms]

So as a bit of a side note. We too are planning to build, and our Neighbors on both sides are doing their own contracting as we speak.

Neighbor A is done. He is a plumber, and is well connected to all the trades so acting as a GC looked to be quite painless.

Neighbor B is in a different boat. Our weather this year seems to be a lot more wet. It has not helped his schedule. He got a late start due to plan issues, his framer has run late due to family issues (?). What Neighbor B's plan was to build a bigger house with the money he saved by not having a GC. He listed the things he could do and has subbed the rest out. On the upside, he has a "friend" who is a GC and he made a deal with him for 14 on site visits, along with 20 telephone calls for a consulting fee. On the downside his framer left yesterday ( I am thinking 1.5 months late at least) and he is now attempting to put on the roof in the rain). And he is doing it more or less by himself (A BIL and a couple of laborers on a steep pitch).

But now comes the rub. As he is slipping behind, he is running into bank pressure. Having not been in his shoes, ever, I do wonder how he is going to get out of this one. He is committed to the size (and cost) of the structure, and the bank won't sign off without things being done and done at a particular time...

Ugh...

Carl

Carl

 

[EddieWalker]

Do I wish we had hired a GC? Probably not due to the high prices they bid the job. I couldn't justify paying 50% more to build the house than the price for which I could sell when finished. That just doesn't make sense. I got a lot of criticism in this thread for not hiring a GC. I know good GCs earn their pay. However, we have caught important things that a GC never would have caught (or fixed if he did catch them). Also, it has been nice not having a GC between us and the subs. We have really had to watch the subs closely to get things done correctly and even under our watchful eye, some things still got missed. I doubt a GC would have watched the subs as closely. I'm sure the subs would rather do work for a GC who doesn't pay close attention than to work for us.

This is more for those who have been following this thread and thinking about being the GC of their own house. I don't want to be rude or insult anybody here, but felt that as a GC, a reply to this statement is needed

50% more by hiring a GC to build a house seems a bit excessive. To my knowledge, the going rate is 15 percent. The advantage to this is that he hires crews that he knows, gets them to show up when they need to and can usually get a better deal on materials. It's done right the first time and his subs don't try to pull funny things to either cut corners or over charge for what they are doing.

The other assumption that you mention about not making sure it's done right is insulting. There are all sorts of versions of "right." Some are code, others are common sense and then others are attention to detail. Obed has caught some pretty big mistakes by the guys he hired, and it's a good thing that he's beent there to inspect and catch those things. Assuming that good GC would allow them to happen in the first place is saying that he's not competent and knowledgable about what he's doing. This is the differnce between one who earns his money, knows what he's doing and has built up a reputation by doing it right over and over again.

When you consider hiring a GC, think about what you know about building a house. Most people don't have a clue all the little details that go into it, and what makes it a quality home and what just gets covered up with caulking and paint. Hiring a hack who doesn't know what he is doing, and doesn't care about the house isn't the same thing as hiring a professional who takes pride in his work, has years of exprience, a solid reputation, references and a waiting list on when he can get to you. This economy has been great for weeding out the hacks. The good ones are busy and making money. The hacks are out of work and blaming it on the "economy." There is more work out there than I can handle, and the guys that I respect and consider to be good at what they do are also as busy as ever, if not more so because the hacks are dropping like flies because nobody wants to hire them. Clients can be picky right now, and those without work have burned too many bridges.

Assuming that a good GC would not have done as good a job at building this house isn't true. While it's become a very nice house, it's also had it's set backs and mistakes. Obed has been very good at going back and correcting a lot of them, but there is no way to be 100% that he got all of them. A guy who has built hundreds of houses is going to see things that the rest of us don't even know to look at. He's going to go look at the plan and know right off where the problem areas are, and be able to explain to a client why they are problems, and might need to be done differently. If a sub does something stupid, wrong or doesn't show, he'll have resources to move on and get it done. This comes from years of experience. Something you can't get on your first, second or even tenth house.

What I admire about Obed is his honestly in looking back at his mistakes and what has gone wrong. This is why his home will come out fine. I also think it's what makes this such an good thread and something that everybody who is ever thinking about building their own house should read.

Sincerly,
Eddie

 

[mkane09]

What I admire about Obed is his honestly in looking back at his mistakes and what has gone wrong. This is why his home will come out fine. I also think it's what makes this such an good thread and something that everybody who is ever thinking about building their own house should read.

Sincerly,
Eddie

What Eddie said! I agree 100 percent with that first sentence. And, to be honest, I doubt if I could have been as.....cordial....with the sometimes conflicting advice that Obed has received throughout the thread and with the build. But, I also could not STAND to be a year out and not in my house. I don't have the patience for that. I think an important point that Eddie made was that a good GC is worth what it costs to get him. Honestly, I don't know jack about building a house, so if I build one, I HAVE to trust whoever my GC will be. Therefore, I need to be sure to get the one with the best references and track record that I can. This is the lesson to be learned!

mkane09

 

[mikefromnh]

Well said Eddie.

 

[brin]

Here in Georgia even during the boom years of home construction a really good and experienced GC could be hired for 10%. and as far as I am concerned unless you are retired, or are otherwise going to be on site with your construction and you know what you are doing as far as home construction then that 10% will be money well spent.

Obed had been building his house for a year now...and General Contractor would have had the house built in 4 or 5 months including weather delays....so there is that trade off. Further when you have to go back and redo things after undoing things you lose materials, time and sometimes good subs who cannot put up with delays..they have a business to run as well.

I was the GC on our house when we built it 5 yrs ago and it we moved in 4 and !/2 months after we broke ground but I had years of construction experience and knew all of the subs I used personally...big advantage..

When you undertake building a house on your own as the general contractor there are trade offs...somehow I don't think the average guy without prior experience really saves anything when you take into account most folks would have had to pay rent to live somewhere else all that time....Obed had his camper...most folks would not and then add up the do overs...So I agree with Eddie completely.

 

[CurlyDave]

I have done it both ways, more than once.

Eddie is right in that a good GC can help you and save you money. OTOH, I had a highly recommended GC who accepted mistakes by subs that I would not have. And the one where I insisted on a complete do-over, the GC allowed him to charge me twice.

I am on the second time of building my own house as an owner-builder, and would do it again in a heartbeat.

I took the time to make up a bill of materials and faxed it to 7 large lumberyards/building supply houses. All but one faxed a bid back within a few days and I saved about 50% over retail, plus got higher quality lumber and materials. When I need some hard-to-find item, I call up their contractor sales person and she finds it for me. Best of all they deliver in their truck at no charge.

But, I am an engineer and can understand the reasons behind codes and can call a sub-contractor on shoddy work. And, I am retired so I can be "on the job" every day.

If you have a day job, a good competent GC is the way to go.

 

[Obed]

Thinking about the family, how's your cat doing? Complete recovery I hope.

Yes, complete recovery. Thanks. However, she's old and getting more feeble every day. The wife doesn't think the cat will be alive when we move in the house. A year ago I thought the cat would never make it until now and she's still around. We'll see.

Obed

 

[Obed]

It might be a optical illusion but the posts on your porch look bowed?

If you are moving them you might want to go with a laminated post (check with a pole barn supplier it will stay straight

Another thing that might look good if you could get a white vinyl post sleeve (think fence post) to finish it off no paint or maintenance.


tom

I haven't checked for bowing but I think it's an illusion. The posts are pressure treated. We won't be painting them. I don't mind the back porch looking a little "rustic".

 

[Obed]

Obed -

Thanks for the detailed response. I'm facing a similar scenario - we want to build our retirement house in the next 3-5 years. We just moved to the area, so the property sits 12 miles away. I currently work 6 weeks overseas, 6 weeks home...so that would make it very difficult to monitor progress while I'm away.

Frank,
Your schedule will give you some challenges when you build your house regardless of whether you use a GC or act as the GC yourself. Like someone on TBN said, "You don't get what you expect; you get what you inspect." I can't tell you how true that statement is. If you build while you are traveling, I would make a couple of suggestions.

1. If at all possible, time the build so that you are home when the foundation and basement walls (if you have a basement) are built, and when any concrete is installed. These things are permanent; you don't want a subcontractor or his workers taking ANY shortcuts at this point. Without our personal inspections, the footer for the center load bearing wall in our house would not have gotten rebar in it. Also, one of the plumbing drain pipes below our basement slab would have been installed so that it ran uphill instead of downhill.
2. You might consider hiring a home inspector to act as your eyes. If we had it to do over again, I very likely would hire a home inspector to monitor our build. That way, when things aren't done correctly, I can tell the subs (or GC) that our inspector pointed out the issues and said they needed fixing. If using a GC, I would let him know up front that we would be using a 3rd party private home inspector throughout the process and that the construction would have to meet his approval. I would also put in the contract that nothing would be covered before it could be inspected (e.g. inspect waterproofing before backfilling, inspect plumbing before covering with concrete, inspect flashing before covering with siding or roofing).

My biggest question is - how did you acquire the knowledge for information on the trades?

There's a lot of stuff I didn't know before building this house and a lot more I still don't know. We completely rennovated our last house and we did much of the work so I got some experience then.

Also, we ask lots of questions. When interviewing each sub, we ask detailed questions about how they will do the work. Often, their responses will clue us into things we need to research. Also, each sub's responses give us good questions to ask the competing subs when getting bids. The internet and TBN are great sources of information. I also ask people I who have built their own houses questions.

We read the code book to see if the code is being followed. Sometimes the code book gives us hints on things we need to research on the internet.

Plus, much of the building process is just common sense. My experience with this house has been, if a sub builds something in a way that makes me uncomfortable, 9 out of 10 times I'm right to make them re-do it. Your intuition and common sense will probably be correct. The sub will give you all kinds of reasons why what you're asking is unnecessary. I'm much less willing to give in to the subs now than I was at the beginning our building process based on the things I've seen the subs try to get away with. I do make sure I do a little research before talking to the sub about redoing something.

I remember you bought a code book, but what about the technical info on each trade? Is that included in the code book, or did you read some books on each trade?

The code book tells what should be done but never why to do it. For example, the code book will tell you to overlap the top plates at the corners of the framed walls but will not say why to do so. The code book will tell you to use anchor bolts every 6 feet in the bottom plate of the load bearing walls attached to the foundation but will not explain the purpose of the bolts. To understand the "why's" and the intricate details regarding "how", you will need to find another source. We used TBN, the internet, and people (subs and friends) for info.

I'm hoping to retire in 5 years, and perhaps put off the building phase until I'm able to be there full time.

I believe you'll enjoy the building process much more if you have time to devote to it without the demands of full-time job pulling at you while you are building. However, lot's of people have successfully built houses while working full-time at a regular job. In our case, my wife is working full-time at building our house.

Obed