PO'ed Veteran

[300UGUY]

"Term Limits" is the only way...and unfortunately it will be very difficult to even get this (term limit referendum) on a general electorate ballot...

There is way through the use of petitions...they have been used in some states to get laws passed that legislators refused to address but then again getting the organization required to see something like that through involves using the same people (lawyers) that are mostly opposed to such legislation...

returing the government to more of a "for the people" is a step in the right direction...but lately we have been misled in the opposite direction...

the only way is to remove the apathy and ignorance that is such a large part of the general electorate...

We have had term limits here in Michigan since the early 90's. IMHO, it has been terrible. We now have a legislature that doesn't know how to legislate. Legislation is actually being written by lobbyists. My State Rep was actually chastised by his own party for not reading a bill before he submitted it. Note that he wasn't called out for having a insurance company employee write the bill, merely because he had no idea what was in the bill. He is now going to be our state senator. Term limits has institutionalized ignorance. I was for term limits when it started, but it hasn't worked out very well. Our legislature is made up of opportunists and insiders getting their ticket punched. 2 terms in the state house, 2 terms in the state senate, then generally on to a lobbyist job. Nobody looks for the long term. Both parties are guilty.

 

[300UGUY]

In the mid-50s, we gave green stamps at my dad's Mobil service station. I can tell you that some women took those things seriously. Mobil tires at the time were good tires, but too expensive. No way we could compete with places like the local White Auto store who was the biggest tire dealer in town, although we mounted and balanced what he sold. However, if someone wanted Mobil tires, we'd tell them that we'd sell the tires for $1 over our cost, plus the mounting and balancing, but that we could not give green stamps at that price.

I'll never forget when one of our regular customers agreed with that and bought a complete set of new tires. But that evening, here came the wife and wanted her green stamps. Dad told her what the deal was and showed her the price book, our cost and the MSRP. He told her if her husband had paid retail price he could have even given him double green stamps. Well, she promptly paid the difference, dad actually gave her triple green stamps, we made more money, and she left happy as a pig in mud.:laughing:

The town's biggest grocery store was across the street from us and he also gave green stamps. But there came a time when he told us the profit margin on groceries was so little that he figured he could quit giving green stamps, lose half his business and break even. So he quit giving green stamps, lost three-fourths of his business, and had to go back to giving green stamps.

I had a grandmother that was born in England, raised in Canada. She didn't want to pay full price for anything. Or tip a waitress. Going shopping with her when I was a kid was pretty stressful.

 

[/pine]

...We now have a legislature that doesn't know how to legislate...

this is not the fault of the legislators...it's the fault of the electorate...

apathy and ignorance are the main causes of placing inept, unqualified (leaders) candidates on the ballot...

right now a rookie congressman or senator only has one option to become established and that is to hire "in the loop" aides...that is the cycle that has to be broken...denouncing term limits because inept and or ineffective candidates are put in office is throwing the baby out with the bath water...

 

[riptides]

....candidates are put in office is throwing the baby out with the bath water...

And every four years we seem to do just that with our "direction". It makes no difference who is in office, strategically for the past 6 administrations we are adrift.

If you doubt me, go look at the poll numbers of administrations during mid-terms.

Americans cannot stay on a course more than a year.

 

[Loren49]

Is there any evidence that places with term limits have been governed better than others or is it just a belie? I'm involved in local government in a sparsity populated rural area. Even at this level it takes a couple years to get a fair understanding of the responsibilities. I feel that term limits would not serve us well. No better than a rule that would not allow us to borrow money.
The voters can impose a limit to anyone's number of terms - be informed and vote.
example:How many people out there could accurately state five or more provisions of the healthcare reform law? Talking points don't count. I predict that most have a strong feeling either for or against but are actually quite ignorant of the facts. ***Not expecting an answer nor to start a discussion on healthcare**** Point is how many take the time to really be informed or do we just listen to the loudest politician or talk show host?

Loren

 

[20 20]

300UGUY; term limit or not these figure heads sign bills all the time without looking. I was listening to an interesting radio show awhile back. The host called up ____career politician and asked if he would sign a certain bill. The politician said of course not that goes against everything I stand for, well quess what he signed it..... You're also saying no to term but your politicians are still pulling a lot of weight in the background. No matter how it is labeled {lobbyist} they're still doing their deed. When I speak of term that means once the term is up go onto something else in life and have NO influence except on voting day. Coruption comes to the field dressed as a lamb{lobbyist}, but underneath it's still the wolf{politician}.

 

[20 20]

Is there any evidence that places with term limits have been governed better than others or is it just a belie? I'm involved in local government in a sparsity populated rural area. Even at this level it takes a couple years to get a fair understanding of the responsibilities. I feel that term limits would not serve us well. Loren

There may not be good info on term limits but there is a great example of coruption for career politicians, its called what we have now

I also live in a small area with folks being involved on a small scale with government. They kept getting elected, used the same excuse you have said, not enough time. It's funny{odd} how there wasn't enough time to do their job, but there was plenty of time to be involved in a big investigation on abuse of money I'm not arguing the fact that one needs to learn what is going on, maybe there should be some type of learning curve time{not making decisions just learning the job, 6mths maybe} then do the term and THAT IS IT !!!

 

[sweettractors]

We have had term limits here in Michigan since the early 90's. IMHO, it has been terrible. We now have a legislature that doesn't know how to legislate. Legislation is actually being written by lobbyists. My State Rep was actually chastised by his own party for not reading a bill before he submitted it.

In my "perfect" world a member of the legislature would not write any new laws. The laws we have on the books now are plentiful, and can' be enforced. Jails Full up Ken Sweet

 

[Loren49]

So you therefore are in favor letting all of the Bush Tax Cuts expire - no adjustment to health care laws no matter what the future brings, etc.?? Making laws is their Constitutional Responsibility.

The Legislative Branch | The White House
Article I of the Constitution enumerates the powers of Congress and the specific areas in which it may legislate. Congress is also empowered to enact laws deemed "necessary and proper" for the execution of the powers given to any part of the government under the Constitution.

Take the time to see how your representatives vote, what bills they introduce and then vote. If they are doing what you feel is right why would you want them to leave? If they are corrupt - vote them out. How do we get rid of the corrupt corporate bosses and lobbyists??


Loren

 

[20 20]

How do we get rid of the corrupt corporate bosses and lobbyists??


Loren

That's the million $ question