PT422 Engine shaking / sputtering

[bjustice]

I would vote for the fuel injected Robin--and would ask about a stronger starter. I read somewhere about a different starter for special hardstarting applications. Sorry, don't know where. I'll keep looking.

 

[ernemats]

On the Robin cold weather starting, I have a 422 with Robin engine for 11 years and almost 1,600 hours on it, still the original battery, new ignition coils in the last 2 years and spark plugs are the only engine related items I have had to replace. I have some difficulty starting it in real cold weather, (below 20 degrees) but it usually starts if I use a magnetic heater on the hydraulic oil tank overnight. It is kept in an unheated garage. A friend of mine bought Scargs 429 last year and I do not know how much trouble he has starting it in cold weather. Another fellow I know had a 422 which he put in the Robin 25 hp engine . He said it was easy but he did not notice much difference in power. He put in different wheel motors which improved the hill climbing ability a great deal.

 

[bjustice]

I have been thinking about the possibility of installing the EH72 Natural gas/Propane version in my PT2522 when the time comes. It is a bolt-in except for mounting the gas bottle. That should be solveable. Also note that assessories are avail remote oil filter, mufflers ect. 30 amp alt and the NG/LPG should solve the starting problem. A download is here:

Wisconsin Industrial Products, Inc. - Engines

 

[MossRoad]

Oh yeah... and I will definitely take pics and create a how-to thread/tutorial on the engine swap. I think there are many people on this forum who could handle a project like this, but don't want to take on the risk due to some unknowns. If it can be broken down while addressing the main concerns, it might empower others to dive in and upgrade/replace their PT engines. If/when I'm successful, I'd be happy to share my experience.

Here's another opinion question: Disregarding potential issues with fitment and/or cost, which would you prefer in your PT?

1. a liquid cooled, carbureted Kawasaki
2. an air cooled, fuel injected Robin
3. an air cooled, carbureted Kohler Command Pro

In all honesty, I think any of them would be fine in the summer. I can get any engine running in the summer. But when I really, really need that machine the most, on those absolutely terrible winter mornings when it is ZERO degrees, dark as heck, the wind is howling at 20+ MPH, it has been snowing all night and I need to get out of the driveway to get to work to cover for all of the other folks that didn't plan for bad weather situations...

I would choose the Kohler again in a heartbeat! I can count on it to get the job done. :thumbsup:

 

[KMA]

I would choose the Kohler again in a heartbeat! I can count on it to get the job done. :thumbsup:

Yeah, I'm leaning that way too (although my mind changes daily).

I think it is going to come down to a Kohler Command Pro 25hp and the Robin EH72 FI, but the Kohler is ahead by a nose.

Kohler Command Pro CH730
+ automatic compression release and electronic ignition
+ good reputation
+ wide array of accessories/parts easily available
- tighter fit
- difficult to interpret "spec numbers" and find best version
Kohler Engines: CH730: Command PRO: Product Detail: Engines

Robin EH72 Fuel Injection
+ Fuel injection
+ Same size block for drop-in fit
+ Easy to translate known PT spec number to FI model
- harder to service/understand?
- Potentially higher price
- Need to purchase new coupling for smaller shaft diameter
Subaru Robin - Features and Benefits

The price for the CH730 varies quite a bit depending on spec number... Here's a good price on one that might work, but I'll need to do some more researching before knowing for sure:
Kohler Engine Number PA-CH730-0038, 25.0 HP Model: CH730S-0038 Command Series - On sale with free shipping at Tulsa Engine Warehouse!

 

[3238dpw]

Why not the Kohler FI engine. I believe it is 28 horse. that would be my first pic for a new engine. I asked my local guy about the reliability of the FI on the Kohlers, and he said that since they came out with them he has only one FI issue. He also said that the engines last longer with FI, are easier to start and use less fuel. that sold me.:thumbsup:

 

[KMA]

Why not the Kohler FI engine. I believe it is 28 horse. that would be my first pic for a new engine. I asked my local guy about the reliability of the FI on the Kohlers, and he said that since they came out with them he has only one FI issue. He also said that the engines last longer with FI, are easier to start and use less fuel. that sold me.:thumbsup:

Oh yeah, that would definitely be a great choice... unfortunately I saw prices on those that are $600-$1200 more than the models I considered above. That's a pretty steep price for FI.

I'm already potentially spending about $300 to upgrade from the EH72 recommended by Terry, to either the EH72 FI or the CH730. Adding a minimum of $600 more gets me further and further away from my goal of spending as little as possible and still getting something I want.

Note: if I really wanted to stay cheap, I would try to get the current engine repaired first, but I'm not happy with it's performance. That being said, I will probably repair my EH65 if its cheap enough to do. I will then either sell it or use it for something else. Anyone know of a generator kit that would work with it, or maybe another good use?

 

[MossRoad]

,,,,,,

Note: if I really wanted to stay cheap, I would try to get the current engine repaired first, but I'm not happy with it's performance. That being said, I will probably repair my EH65 if its cheap enough to do. I will then either sell it or use it for something else. Anyone know of a generator kit that would work with it, or maybe another good use?

Log splitter engine.

 

[MossRoad]

The Kawasaki engines are highly touted on the landscaper and lawn maintenance forums for powering mowers. However, I don't see much info about them in winter time use. Does anyone know of them being used in snow removal equipment. Also, in my environment, a liquid cooled engine would require a highly armored radiator. I frequently get sticks and debris jammed into the steel grating in the PT425 engine compartment. That is one advantage an air cooled engine has over liquid cooled for my uses.

 

[KMA]

The Kawasaki engines are highly touted on the landscaper and lawn maintenance forums for powering mowers. However, I don't see much info about them in winter time use. Does anyone know of them being used in snow removal equipment. Also, in my environment, a liquid cooled engine would require a highly armored radiator. I frequently get sticks and debris jammed into the steel grating in the PT425 engine compartment. That is one advantage an air cooled engine has over liquid cooled for my uses.

Yeah, I'm 99% sure it will be air cooled at this point. I can't justify the additional cost and effort for potentially little-to-no real world benefit in my implementation. It was fun to think about though. :drool:

There's also a really good chance it will end up being the Kohler CH730 too. I believe it will fit (albeit tightly) and it has some features that should help with cold weather starting. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of nice accessories that are readily available. For example, there are parts that allow me to relocate the oil filter to an easy to reach location, and help me build the external muffler. I might be able to find similar items for other engines, but the Kohler stuff is everywhere. Plus the price is only a few hundred above the EH72.