HF mower?

[Dargo]

Has anyone done the math on a $375 RFM from China? You know HF has at least a 20% markup because you can use a 20% off coupon on anything there. That means that HF probably has $290 or so in it. I seriously doubt that HF buys directly from the manufacturer in China, so you have a distributor who sells to the HF chain of stores. Let's say they only make 5%. Now you have a $275 mower. It's reasonably heavy and has to be shipped all the way from a plant in China to HF. I doubt it can be trucked from the manufacturer to the ship yards, loaded in a container first, loaded on the ship, shipped across the ocean, unloaded at the port and trucked to your local HF store for less than $75 to $100. Now that leaves you with a $175 to $200 mower. You know the manufacturer is making money on what they make, so let's say they make only $40 per unit.

So, tell me, how nice of a 5' rear mower do you really think you're going to get for something that most likely cost around $150 to manufacture?? A 40 hp gearbox for a KingKutter 4' or 5' RFM costs $265 itself! What kind of mower would you expect that costs $100 less than a mid-line finish mower's gearbox alone costs??

 

[rtimgray]

What kind of mower would you expect that costs $100 less than a mid-line finish mower's gearbox alone costs??

A Harbor Freight mower!

But seriously, I would bet you're pretty close on the costs (probably about $150 in it) because if you put it in perspective of mass production, with the units in the hundreds or thousands, it probably shares parts (such as pulleys, bearings, gearboxes, pto shaft) with other implements, so they are just added to the assembly, not custom made or engineered. The rest of it is simple stampings, that may have been bought used from a different manufacturer (or copied, maybe more likely). Then you factor in the relatively low cost of labor, poor quality of rubber components, cheap steel and cheap paint, and you can probably make a profit on units like that when you produce them in bulk.

I don't think anyone would make the claim (well, at least I wouldn't - let others speak for themselves) that the HF mower for $375 is on par with Woods finish mower. But if it fits the needs of an individual who understands the risks involved with a HF mower, then it could be a heckuva deal.

If I could pick up a new, better known brand, for just a couple hundred more, I might go that way. If it was going to be a whole lot more, I might buy HF and see how much mowing I could get done under warranty.

Do we have any idea if the OP bought the mower, anyway?

 

[sweettractors]

I just heard on the news today that in April of this year China internet servers re-routed all our military and Senate website traffic through their country for a full 18 minutes before we caught it. Cyber warfare against the USA and we are the biggest customer they have. That is no way to treat a friend. I don't trust anything they say, build or do. Ken Sweet

 

[Soundguy]

On most Milwaukee tools, I'd agree that they are as good as, or better than, any other high quality, name brand, piece of equipment. For some reason Milwaukee turned out a Yugo with their 28v cordless tools. If your grandfather thinks the 28v Milwaukee cordless tools are the best, go buy him a complete set of 18v tools from HF for about $20 and he will think he's in heaven. Yeah, they are that bad. Everything else I own made by Milwaukee is great. Their 28v cordless tools can't hold a candle to the 18v house brand sold at HF.

battery life issues?

or torque problems?

or?

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I'm not saying your math is off.. but I bet some of the numbers might be.

I would not assume that there is not a corporate buyer that works for HF that DOES buy directly from the companies. i would guess they even order by specs given that you can find multiple different grades of the same style tools. ie, 9,99 grinder, 14.99 grinder, 19.99 grinder.. etc.( 4.5" grinders )

also.. in that company buying deal. I would almost bet that shipping to the freight load location ( cock? ) might be handled by the manufacturer.

i also would not assume a huge 25% profit per item for the manufacturer. I would figure half that at most for a bulk run produced item.

I also would not equate a kk ( china made too! ) 40hp box that costs the end consumer 265$ costs anywhere near that to produce at the company..

my guess is cheap wheels, and bearings, perhaps some softer than premium grade steel in the supports ( bend easier ) and a rough casting gear box.

bearings would be my main concern.. and the wheel beairngs would be easy.. gearbox too, as long as you keep an eye on it and if it gets play.. change it before it eats into something.

my only REAL concern would be that the gearbox did not have a steel race for the bearing, vs a simple cast machine surface for the bearing to run. if that was the case.. you've have to hav ethe box machined for a race once the (hard)bearing wore in.. or at least welded and recut for a new surface ( probably be the way to do it as the weld will be semi hard vs the cast. ).

that would be my main concern.. and I'd want to see a breakdown of the gearbox to confirm a replaceable steel race vs a machined race into the cast.

soundguy

Has anyone done the math on a $375 RFM from China? You know HF has at least a 20% markup because you can use a 20% off coupon on anything there. That means that HF probably has $290 or so in it. I seriously doubt that HF buys directly from the manufacturer in China, so you have a distributor who sells to the HF chain of stores. Let's say they only make 5%. Now you have a $275 mower. It's reasonably heavy and has to be shipped all the way from a plant in China to HF. I doubt it can be trucked from the manufacturer to the ship yards, loaded in a container first, loaded on the ship, shipped across the ocean, unloaded at the port and trucked to your local HF store for less than $75 to $100. Now that leaves you with a $175 to $200 mower. You know the manufacturer is making money on what they make, so let's say they make only $40 per unit.

So, tell me, how nice of a 5' rear mower do you really think you're going to get for something that most likely cost around $150 to manufacture?? A 40 hp gearbox for a KingKutter 4' or 5' RFM costs $265 itself! What kind of mower would you expect that costs $100 less than a mid-line finish mower's gearbox alone costs??

 

[Dargo]

A Harbor Freight mower!

But seriously, I would bet you're pretty close on the costs (probably about $150 in it) because if you put it in perspective of mass production, with the units in the hundreds or thousands, it probably shares parts (such as pulleys, bearings, gearboxes, pto shaft) with other implements, so they are just added to the assembly, not custom made or engineered. The rest of it is simple stampings, that may have been bought used from a different manufacturer (or copied, maybe more likely). Then you factor in the relatively low cost of labor, poor quality of rubber components, cheap steel and cheap paint, and you can probably make a profit on units like that when you produce them in bulk.

I don't think anyone would make the claim (well, at least I wouldn't - let others speak for themselves) that the HF mower for $375 is on par with Woods finish mower. But if it fits the needs of an individual who understands the risks involved with a HF mower, then it could be a heckuva deal.

If I could pick up a new, better known brand, for just a couple hundred more, I might go that way. If it was going to be a whole lot more, I might buy HF and see how much mowing I could get done under warranty.

Do we have any idea if the OP bought the mower, anyway?

Clearly I have no more information on true costs than you would, maybe less. My only point is that sometimes when that is all a guy can afford (been there, trust me), a good used name brand unit would be a better deal. I'd have to say that it's a given that the HF unit will not last long even with the most tender loving care and most gentle use. Given that I know after a couple three times using their warranty you're on your own, I just feel it could hurt someone trying to just get by.

At best, getting parts will be an exercise and time consuming with an almost certainty that some parts will not be available in 3 or 4 years. You can get a couple year old used KK RFM for about that same amount and you actually will have something. I've gone to probably over a hundred estate auctions. When this cheap Chinese no-name stuff comes up, nobody wants it. The auction company would probably be happy to get $50 for it if it's only a year old. I just think the poor working guy gets taken advantage of with a lot of this trash that is sent over from China.

Remember, I've probably broken more cheap junk from Horrible Freight than most people have even seen.

 

[Dargo]

battery life issues?

or torque problems?

or?

soundguy

Major league battery issues for sure. Then there is positively no comparison between the torque when comparing the Milwaukee 28v to a DeWalt, Bosch, Porter Cable, Makita or Ryobi. Most any company can have it's lemons. With Milwaukee, their 28v cordless tools are true lemons.

 

[sweettractors]

Probably the most asked question of me in the 34 years I have been selling tractors and machinery is: "I want to buy something that will hold its value. Say for example, if I died and my wife had a auction to settle the estate's farm equipment, would this implement bring top dollar in this community." I like to be able to say yes it will and I will be there bidding on it to make sure it does. I can't tell the same fellow the same thing for China made products. Ken Sweet

 

[rtimgray]

Probably the most asked question of me in the 34 years I have been selling tractors and machinery is: "I want to buy something that will hold its value. Say for example, if I died and my wife had a auction to settle the estate's farm equipment, would this implement bring top dollar in this community." I like to be able to say yes it will and I will be there bidding on it to make sure it does. I can't tell the same fellow the same thing for China made products. Ken Sweet

If they're really that worried about those they leave behind, they would be better off to buy the cheap equipment and spend the difference on some term or whole life insurance. That will provide their widow with a lot more money than the sale of a brand name rotary cutter vs. china made equipment.

I would say that purchasing brand name equipment strictly for the resale value in the event of one's untimely demise is suspect at best. But, if it helps the buyer feel better about their choice of equipment (potentially spending more money for similar equipment), then more power to them.

 

[rtimgray]

Clearly I have no more information on true costs than you would, maybe less. My only point is that sometimes when that is all a guy can afford (been there, trust me), a good used name brand unit would be a better deal. I'd have to say that it's a given that the HF unit will not last long even with the most tender loving care and most gentle use. Given that I know after a couple three times using their warranty you're on your own, I just feel it could hurt someone trying to just get by.

At best, getting parts will be an exercise and time consuming with an almost certainty that some parts will not be available in 3 or 4 years. You can get a couple year old used KK RFM for about that same amount and you actually will have something. I've gone to probably over a hundred estate auctions. When this cheap Chinese no-name stuff comes up, nobody wants it. The auction company would probably be happy to get $50 for it if it's only a year old. I just think the poor working guy gets taken advantage of with a lot of this trash that is sent over from China.

Remember, I've probably broken more cheap junk from Horrible Freight than most people have even seen.

The only problem with the theory of buying a "couple year old used KK RFM" is that you will likely buy a used unit, as is, where is, no warranty. What if the gearbox goes out of that? I think the number was $265. Now, between the money I spent on the used RFM and the money for a new gearbox, I could have bought a new HF mower with a warranty.

But I will agree that the likelihood of a used mower crapping out that quick would be low, but you never know, that might be why it is for sale. The gearbox may be full off grease so it doesn't make too much noise - right up till it blows up. I think it boils down (like many other things) to personal preference, risk tolerance, and economics.

I'm just happy that we live in a country where we can choose which one we want, and gripe about other people who don't agree with our choice!