Tractor Sizing What size Tractor do i need?

[567234ta]

Hi all, i am glad i found this forum already just from reading threads on here.
I want to be able to dig a decent sized pond, like 50' x 50' maybe 8 feet deep, get stumps out of the ground, i don't mind if i have to work on for a while, i have been doing everything by hand anyways so it will be much faster than that way.

I know i need a shovel on the back and the scoop, but not sure what size tractor i should try to get. I know nothing about tractors but i am a fast learner.

Thanks, illya

 

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

Almost any size tractor would get the job done, if you have enough time. 4WD, down pressure on the loader, and a toothbar on the bucket, would all be a big help. The larger the tractor the faster it will get the job done. If you have some large rocks, they could be a problem for a small tractor.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Unless you get a tractor with a backhoe, a 50 x 50 pond is going to be a challenge with a FEL, box blade combo. The tractor, FEL and box blade are going to eat up 20 feet of you area, so be prepared to do a lot of F-R shifting. Dont forget that the base of your dam is going to have to be quiet wide to accomodate an 8 foot deep pond assuming that you dont dig it 8 feet below grade but instead use the dirt to make the levee with. I just finished a 100 x 100 or so inside dimensioned pond using my tractor and FEL mostly, occassionally using the box blade to loosen up some rocks and level the bottom back up. It took me about 20 hours to dig then another 5 or so to trim the top flat and compact the dam, but unless you plan on getting a large tractor, plan for quiet a bit longer duration. Even that size was pretty limiting in maneuvering as that was about the tightest circle I could make and pull the boxblade without twisting the scarifier teeth. My brother in law had one built with a dozer that is about 12 feet deep on deep end and 8 on the shallow end and it took over a week for the dozer. @ $100 per hour It had to meet the Arkansas Ag Extension requirements. I dug mine to the shale rock level which was about 5-6 feet down average depth just for my personal use.

 

[567234ta]

I was looking at bobcat excavators last night which would probably be aimed at most of what i plan on doing. As far as moving dirt around i have an atv with dump cart i could haul it with. I really didnt want to spend 35k on a tractor but i really like the digging part of the backhoe.
The projects i have lined up are dig a pond and use the dirt to level the land about 100 feet away or so to build a 30x60 shop/garage on. It has a slope to it and i wanted a slab poured.
There are several areas where people dumped trash 30 years ago on my land and i want to dig a hole and bury it all. Cans, bottles, roofing shingles, cement blocks, car hoods, doors, an old smashed car body. I have been clearing a road by hand with just pic axes and chain saws, and it takes so long!!

I don't mind working hard but ill never get all this done by hand.
This is a pond i dug at the house im at now, 16'x19'x5' deep. It took me a week to dig by hand and this was when it was 100ｰF+ outside.

I need to make a road to my house i plan on building which is at least 3 or 4 hundred yards thru the woods, dig for the water line also. So i don't mind if it takes me 200 hours vs 20 hours with a track hoe, I just can't do it all with a shovel.

 

[Thomas]

As they say..you keep working like that you'll work yourself out of job.

 

[LD1]

You still need something that is going to be able to get it done on a decient amount of time. I'd try to shoot for not more than 3-4 days.

200 hours @ 10 hours a day is 20 days if you work at it every day. What is the chance that mother nature is going to cooperate for that amount of time??? Or will you just end up with a half dug pond half full of water. Trying to pump it out and getting it dry enough to get the equipment back in can be a PITA.

And as mentioned, it makes a difference HOW you plan on digging. Are you planning on digging a big hole in the ground and having to go somehwere with the dirt??? Or do you lan on only digging down about 4 foot and using that dirt to create a 4' wall (giving you 8' depth). Re-using the dirt will be the quickest cause you only have to handle half as much dirt. But lets say that you plan on going 8' and moving the dirt. 50x50x8 is 20,000cu ft of dirt. which is about 740 cu yds. Given that most tractors in the 30-40HP range have a 1/3 or so yard bucket. you are talking about 2000 bucket fulls of dirt. That is alot of seat time. And depending on experience level, it may take you longer than you want. and if you dont want to spend 20k+ on a tractor, look at renting a dozer or excavator for a weekend and have it done.:2cents:

 

[567234ta]

You're young yet, but eventually, this stuff will get old. More and more, I appreciate the fact that less is more. Sometimes you become a slave to your dreams.

I'm 44 lol

You still need something that is going to be able to get it done on a decient amount of time. I'd try to shoot for not more than 3-4 days.

200 hours @ 10 hours a day is 20 days if you work at it every day. What is the chance that mother nature is going to cooperate for that amount of time??? Or will you just end up with a half dug pond half full of water. Trying to pump it out and getting it dry enough to get the equipment back in can be a PITA.

And as mentioned, it makes a difference HOW you plan on digging. Are you planning on digging a big hole in the ground and having to go somehwere with the dirt??? Or do you lan on only digging down about 4 foot and using that dirt to create a 4' wall (giving you 8' depth). Re-using the dirt will be the quickest cause you only have to handle half as much dirt. But lets say that you plan on going 8' and moving the dirt. 50x50x8 is 20,000cu ft of dirt. which is about 740 cu yds. Given that most tractors in the 30-40HP range have a 1/3 or so yard bucket. you are talking about 2000 bucket fulls of dirt. That is alot of seat time. And depending on experience level, it may take you longer than you want. and if you dont want to spend 20k+ on a tractor, look at renting a dozer or excavator for a weekend and have it done.:2cents:

i plan on moving the dirt about 100 yards away, i have an atv with a little dump trailer on it i can use, may take a while but it will do it.

Do you think a bobcat excavator would be okay to do the work? or do i absolutely need the front bucket?

 

[Thomas]

May depends on soil..is rocky/hard excavator should be quicker,but the travel distance I would go w/front loader.

 

[flusher]

Hi all, i am glad i found this forum already just from reading threads on here.
I want to be able to dig a decent sized pond, like 50' x 50' maybe 8 feet deep, get stumps out of the ground, i don't mind if i have to work on for a while, i have been doing everything by hand anyways so it will be much faster than that way.

I know i need a shovel on the back and the scoop, but not sure what size tractor i should try to get. I know nothing about tractors but i am a fast learner.

Thanks, illya

OK, you want to move 50x50x8=20,000 cubic feet of earth.
I have a 2008 Mahindra 5525 (54 hp engine, 45 hp pto, 2WD, gear tranny, power steering) with the ML-250 6-ft wide bucket on the front end loader. That bucket has 18.8 cubic feet capacity.



(The little tractor is a 2005 Kubota B7510HST (21 hp engine, 17 hp pto, 4WD, hydrostatic tranny, power steering) with a 4-ft wide bucket.)

That's 1063 bucket-fulls to dig your pond.
If you can load, transport, dump and return in 3 minutes, that's 3189 minutes or 53 hours. Not too bad.
BTW: that 5525 cost about $18K new. The B7510HST was $12.6K new.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[567234ta]

Wow im suprised at the cost of those bobcat excavators, i don't know what a new one cost but even the used were pretty high. Is there a tractor with a backhoe on it that is around 25k?

 

[Thomas]

Maybe visit to local dealer/dealers and chat..get the word out what your looking for.

 

[567234ta]

Maybe visit to local dealer/dealers and chat..get the word out what your looking for.

im going to go to a Kubota dealer in stigler OK tomorrow and see what kind of pricing they have.

 

[om21braz]

Not sure about the Bobcat tlb, but around here 25k will put you in a used Kubota L39 or John Deere 110 tlb units. That amount would also put you in a nice used Bobcat, New Holland, Deere or other skidsteer that would be a better land development tool than would a tractor/loader/backhoe. But the skidsteer does'nt do other tasks such as mowing or tilling as well - plus skidsteer attachments are typically more expensive. Take others advice here and consider all the tasks you have in store for the equipment - then choose wisely.

 

[Tenn_Blue]

As many of the others have said, digging is only 1/2 the issue - you need to move that dirt. Most likely, you will spend more time and effort transporting than digging. We have a small mini-ex (4,000 lb) and a skidsteer (7,000 lbs) - the mini-ex piles it up much faster than the skidsteer can move it around (2 operators - one in each at the same time), and a skidsteer is much faster than a tractor would be moving dirt. And if you only have one piece of equipment (tractor/loader/backhoe), remember that you are going to have to stop digging and move your spoil piles more often.
So figure this will take longer than you expect. Also, depending on your soil, it may be a lot of wear and tear on your equipment. Having said that, there are a lot of ponds that have been dug with just a johnny bucket - depends how much time and persistance you have to get this done. If you enjoy the seat time and have plenty of time to get done, have at it! If you see this as a chore or don't have the time, you may be better off to rent/hire big equipment to come in, get it done, and get out. Just my opinion.....

 

[567234ta]

Talked to a Bobcat dealer today and he is gonna give me pricing tomorrow.

If i can just get a small excavator with a 12" bucket that would be so much more than i have now. While it may take me longer than having it professionally done with big machines and dump trucks, it will be a lot faster than my shovel.
I do have a polaris 850 that weighs 800 pounds that i can haul dirt with in a dump cart.
one area im trying to clear had a trailor that burned to the ground so i been digging thru the wuuds removing cement, tin and trash so i can mow it safely. It takes me forever to do just a small area by hand. With the excavator i will be able to just scape it clean with the front blade and bury the debris. Im really excited about getting one and hope i can afford it.

 

[567234ta]

got a price of 29,800.00 for a brand new Bobcat 325
They did have a 329 with 1200 hours for 12,500.00 which seems like a deal but ill have to look at it. im sure it must be beaten up bad.
But i plan on getting the new 325 if i don't see a good used one that i would feel comfortable buying.

 

[Tenn_Blue]

With the economy, there are a lot of minis out there if you look around. Not going to open the "brand" war on which one is best. We have Bobcat stuff - but that is more a product of picking up the machines at a great price (used). And we have a local dealer who can get all the parts I need - but parts for any machine are going to be expensive...
I have a 322 (older machine) wiith a 16" bucket - it has been able to do anything we needed it to do on our 30 acres. Takes longer at times than a bigger one would need, but can chip away at most jobs. Digs holes/trenches, takes out stumps, use it as a crane, minor grading and backfill, etc. And this class (weight) machine can be pulled on a medium weight trailer by a 1/2 ton pickup.
If you are handy with a wrench, look at used machines, but try and stay under 1500 hours or so. Most "experts" say the machines start to wear out at 2500-3000 hours, depending on care and maintenance. Still life in them, and may work fine for home use, but they start to need expensive parts and show wear in their joints. Good luck!

 

[567234ta]

yeah i am pretty sure i am gonna get a new one, i am handy with a wrench but unfamiliar with working on these. I made a list of projects i needed it for and came up with over 20 uses. So it will definitely be something that will help in so many ways.
i am also looking at a dump trailer for my ATV.
this one
1600 Utility ATV Wagon - Power Dump Cart, dumping ATV Trailer- Power RAM strongest, best, ultimate atv farm trailer, atv ranch trailer

 

[Tenn_Blue]

While that's a nice looking dump trailer, I still think you need to go larger scale to keep up with your digging, especially if you go with a mini. Dirt is heavy, and you would be surprised how even a small pile can add up the pounds. I doubt you could fill that trailer with dirt - leaves and junk, yea, but a full load of dirt would overload it.
Then there is the safety issue - you are pulling a trailer heavier than your atv. Even if it has trailer brakes that you can hook up to your atv (?), it still is going to push when turning, or up/down hills, etc. It may end up taking you for a ride and getting you hurt. Besides,that is more weight than your atv is designed to pull/steer/stop - asking for trouble...
A mini-x is a great tool for what it does, but it won't meet all your needs. Not sure what those 20 thngs you have to do are, but I would think a good utility compact tractor would be your first buy. Tractor will have better weight and traction than your atv, and can accomplish more tasks. If you get a loader, it should move dirt at least as well as your atv. Then add a mini-x as a digging tool.
Even a scut with backhoe (one of the small Kabota B's, a Deere 2305 with hoe, or Massey has a nice little TBL as well) will do better than a shovel and cart! And they will do more general tasks than just an x.

 

[rutwad]

Hi all, i am glad i found this forum already just from reading threads on here.
I want to be able to dig a decent sized pond, like 50' x 50' maybe 8 feet deep, get stumps out of the ground, i don't mind if i have to work on for a while, i have been doing everything by hand anyways so it will be much faster than that way.

I know i need a shovel on the back and the scoop, but not sure what size tractor i should try to get. I know nothing about tractors but i am a fast learner.

Thanks, illya

Depending on your comfort level, I recommend either renting a excavator or hiring someone with one. It could be dug in just over a day. Then you can move all the dirt at your leisure.