What type PTO?

[MikeA57]

Thanks guys, I didn't mean to start any kind of an argument here.

Sooooooo, I guess that means that just replacing the single stage clutch with a double stage would not make it a "Live PTO" as there are other mechanics involved. I wouldn't do it just to do it, but if the time came to replace the clutch, I might consider it if it was feasible and would offer me the advantages mentioned.

It is kind of a PITA to have to stop cutting in order to change speeds, but have to back up first to cut what was missed by stopping.

Thanks again guys, back to the brawling in session! ;-D

Mike

 

[Soundguy]

so.. will the pto spin with the foot clutch all the way down in that design?

soundguy

Stated simply, the second stage drives the PTO and is operated by a second release bearing and second set of PP levers (fingers). Hence it is a dual stage clutch that provides independent PTO control. Quite common in European designed tractors and Waterloo-built gear-drive Deeres from 1960 through the early 90's or so. Any of many tractor brands using LUK double clutches would be of this style.

None of this applies to the OP's 1510. The first response is correct in that regard.

 

[Soundguy]

put an orc on it.. cut out 85% of that hassle..

can then stop, change speeds and start going again while the pto is still freewheeling.

should have one on any tranny pto with a high inertial load anyway.

soundguy

Thanks guys, I didn't mean to start any kind of an argument here.

Sooooooo, I guess that means that just replacing the single stage clutch with a double stage would not make it a "Live PTO" as there are other mechanics involved. I wouldn't do it just to do it, but if the time came to replace the clutch, I might consider it if it was feasible and would offer me the advantages mentioned.

It is kind of a PITA to have to stop cutting in order to change speeds, but have to back up first to cut what was missed by stopping.

Thanks again guys, back to the brawling in session! ;-D

Mike

 

[JC-jetro]

so.. will the pto spin with the foot clutch all the way down in that design?

soundguy

Yep, on my buddy's JD 5205 it does. That's why they call it "Independent" in their definition.

JC,

 

[JC-jetro]

Thanks guys, I didn't mean to start any kind of an argument here.

Sooooooo, I guess that means that just replacing the single stage clutch with a double stage would not make it a "Live PTO" as there are other mechanics involved. I wouldn't do it just to do it, but if the time came to replace the clutch, I might consider it if it was feasible and would offer me the advantages mentioned.

It is kind of a PITA to have to stop cutting in order to change speeds, but have to back up first to cut what was missed by stopping.

Thanks again guys, back to the brawling in session! ;-D

Mike

Transmission drive PTO is not at all a show stopper if you follow Soundguy's recommendation. The key is is not replacing a single to dual clutch in the clutch housing only. it is to have two input shafts, one hollow outside and one solid inside the hollow, both splined. The one that odes the pto has to have reduction gears,lay shaft and final coupler to turn the final pto.. that's the challenge.

again if you have the pto on and half clutch where the tractor comes to full stop. in that fix if your PTO is still running then you have "live".

JC,

 

[Soundguy]

is the hand clutch literally the snd set of what they are calling dual clutch? if so, I guess you could call any independent pto setup dual clutch.. ie.. main single plate clutch for drivetrain, then the pto clutch is the 2nd clutch.. etc.

looking at tractor technology it's neat to see the progression of this stuff. I kinda like the stopgap live pto thatey came up with for the ford N and naa.. a pinion clutch essentially.. replaced the coupler tube from trans to diffy with either a mechanical or hyd clutch pack so you could throw a lever and kill the drivetrain, or hit the main clutch and kill everything. gave you a working 'live' pto. I imagine on an N it was a godsend as it also gave you a semblance of live hyds...

soundguy

 

[JC-jetro]

is the hand clutch literally the snd set of what they are calling dual clutch?

soundguy

I think so, and they call it independent since unlike any "dual Live" you can clutch all the way and with no effect on PTO. I don't know which one they call primary and which one secondary. The first on the left closer to flywheel is the pto. It was interesting to learn "live" thing on NAA. It is interesting for me to see the inner workings same as you. I think I know all Pros and Cons about "live" vs "independent with either electric or lever operated" pto design, but I'm still on the fence which one is the most utilitarian and functional to have. I see a new Loader tractor in my future with more bells and whistles if move out to the property and build a house there. What is your favorites?


JC,

My buddy and I did not like the design of the clutch plates, as we believe he has small amount of warping on his pto clutch disk as it sticks a bit.

 

[Soundguy]

that's the deal then. the drivetrain clutch at the engine / tranny is one stage.. their '2nd' stage is the hand clutch for the tranny. not a literal 2 position foot clutch like a plain dual stage clutch..

so in the end....it's not unlike what everybody else just calls an independent pto.. ie.. clutch for engine.. and clutch for pto..

guess they wanted to sound different different

soundguy

I think so, and they call it independent since unlike any "dual Live" you can clutch all the way and with no effect on PTO. I don't know which one they call primary and which one secondary. The first on the left closer to flywheel is the pto. It was interesting to learn "live" thing on NAA. It is interesting for me to see the inner workings same as you. I think I know all Pros and Cons about "live" vs "independent with either electric or lever operated" pto design, but I'm still on the fence which one is the most utilitarian and functional to have. I see a new Loader tractor in my future with more bells and whistles if move out to the property and build a house there. What is your favorites?


JC,

My buddy and I did not like the design of the clutch plates, as we believe he has small amount of warping on his pto clutch disk as it sticks a bit.

 

[JC-jetro]

t..

guess they wanted to sound different different

soundguy

Yep, Trade secret

Now, which one in the long run you like the best, "independent" or "live"?. I like Technology a lot but not a lot of gimmicky stuff, and for sure believe in "KISS" principal. I value your opinion a lot

JC,

 

[RickB]

is the hand clutch literally the snd set of what they are calling dual clutch? if so, I guess you could call any independent pto setup dual clutch.. ie.. main single plate clutch for drivetrain, then the pto clutch is the 2nd clutch.. etc.

soundguy

When I think of a dual clutch, I think of two friction discs held within a pressure plate assembly and driving two output shafts. When those two discs are engaged and released by a common, staged action by a single element (such as a foot pedal), one has live PTO. When those two friction discs are controlled by separate and distinct release bearings and control systems (as a foot pedal and a hand operated lever), one has one form of independent PTO. Functionally no different from the independent PTO on your 7610S and 5000 which both have IPTO via separate clutches located in different parts of the chassis and which by only the loosest of definitions would be considered a 'dual clutch'.