Ethanol on the Ropes?

[crazyal]

When I start with a full tank of E10 92 octane, I get 28 or 29 mpg each trip. When I use real gasoline without alcohol at 93 octane, I get 33 or 34 mpg each trip. I've duplicated this difference time and time again to the point where I simply will not buy E10 unless I have to. As they say, your mileage may vary, but hand calculating my mileage, it just makes me fume when I have to pay basically the same price for a lower quality fuel that is very cost prohibitive to produce since it takes more than one gallon of fossil fuel to make one gallon of ethanol from corn.

You're not the only one getting worse mileage. I have a 2010 Subaru. Until late summer we could get both E10 and straight gas. I've tried several different tests and all came up with the same conclusion. I'm basically burning 10% Ethanol just to put extra CO2 in the air, in other words a 10% loss in economy.

The first test was just driving the same route back and forth to work, 6 times, and then filling the tank back up. I did this 5 times with both types of gas, I got between 31mpg and 32.5 mpg with straight gas. E10 gave me an average of 27 to 29.5 and can't even to this day no matter how hard I try I can break 30mpg.

Since the car has a ave. mpg gauge another test I like to do, less scientific, where I fill up at the same station along the way home and try my best to see just how high I can make the display read. With straight gas I was able to hit 40.8mpg. The best I can do is 36.6 with E10. It may not be the most accurate way of testing but I could repeat the results with straight gas.

What I have noticed is E10 just doesn't have the low end grunt that straight gas has. I found it's harder to stay in higher gears with E10 when the engine is at lower RPMs. I still try my best to get the best mileage I can but with winter setting in MPG drops. Next year I'll continue to see if I can do better with E10, a hobby of mine while driving. I did a few test with interstate usage that also seamed to back up what I found out but I only did it twice on straight gas, holding out hope that at higher RPMs will be less of a hit.

 

[k0ua]

I didn't realize the lower MPG with ethanol mix fuel was even in question, my owner's manuals of my car and truck (chevy's) state that as a matter of fact that mileage will be lower with ethanol blends. I don't know for sure about the other questions, but the lower mileage was never a question, at least in my mind:confused3:
James K0UA

 

[tungularafishcamp]

Guys I hate to sound like a know it all especially since I don't know squat but isn't gasoline of any type pretty much a waste of resource when diesel is so much more useful, efficient and easier to produce from crude or better yet from

Japanese scientists create diesel-producing algae - Times Online

Coming Soon: $2 a Gallon Diesel From Algae?:Greentech Media

Solazyme Makes First Algae Diesel to Meet Strict US Standard – Gas 2.0

Most of that stuff we are pumping out of the ground came from algae. Now I just need to find a good source of diesel outboards:thumbsup:
Rick

 

[Dargo]

Guys I hate to sound like a know it all especially since I don't know squat but isn't gasoline of any type pretty much a waste of resource when diesel is so much more useful, efficient and easier to produce from crude or better yet from

Japanese scientists create diesel-producing algae - Times Online

Coming Soon: $2 a Gallon Diesel From Algae?:Greentech Media

Solazyme Makes First Algae Diesel to Meet Strict US Standard Gas 2.0

Most of that stuff we are pumping out of the ground came from algae. Now I just need to find a good source of diesel outboards:thumbsup:
Rick

Yeah, but I couldn't find the right color in the diesel Acura TL I wanted. Seriously though, why don't we get the diesel Toyota pickups and SUVs here? I have friends in Europe and Down Under who swear by them.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

Last trip in central america you couldn't find anything newer with gas, even kia's and other small cars were all diesel. And to top it off they got great milage, we rented a Montero one trip and a exterra look alike another and they got 35 and 30 miles to the gallon brand new with almost zero miles so who knows what they would have gotten after they were broke in. These weren't even very many hiway miles, lotsa gravel roads and river crossings.

Even if they are a bit more polluting than us standards, by getting 2x the fuel economy I would think they pollute less. Unfortunatly you can't buy them here and to get them new there you get to pay a 150% costa rica import tax which makes a 20k suv into a 50k one


Kinda makes you wonder what is going on like the little ford/gm diesels that are all over china, africa, argentina, that you can't buy here:confused2:

Rick

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Common sense does not seem so common these days.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

Common sense does not seem so common these days.

:thumbsup:
You got that right, in fact in a lot of left leaning circles and a few right ones is seems down right nonexistant:laughing:
Rick

 

[crazyal]

Didn't you hear. Toyota is coming out with a diesel in 2009. Well they were until things turned sour with the economy (IMO). It was rumored to be a Tundra with a 260hp 585ib-ft Hino engine used in mid size trucks. I also think the new emissions that went into effect for diesel engines just before Toyota committed to doing it didn't help. Now if they revive it I'm wondering if they will go after the biggest most powerful engine market that GM and Ford are trying for or if they will try for something a little smaller for better economy and cleaner burning?

I think the diesel market is hard to break into in the states. When you're use to paying $8 a gallon a half buck or so difference between gas and diesel isn't that much. When you are talking poorer countries that don't tax or have to worry about emissions it's also easier to get into. But when you see prices 25% higher it's a different story. Don't forget most other countries don't have a gas engine culture.

 

[Loren49]

Quote: "Common sense does not seem so common these days"

I'm interested in the age of "common sense" with a few examples. I feel the "good old days" is a bit of a myth. Example: not sure that unrestricted dumping of chemicals into our rivers and lakes was that "common sense" I'm looking for. Taxpayers have spent millions and endured many illnesses because of that. Another example - banks being completely free to fail in the 30s with no social safety net wasn't that common sense to me. We have no clue what "hard times" are. IMHO (as we complain via the internet on our personal computers)

To paraphrase Garrison Keillor "Its not really that bad and besides, you're not the only one"

If each of us can identify a specific problem and work for a solution we might actually accomplish the positive change we all desire.

Loren

 

[crazyal]

MTBE is a prime example of the lack of common sense that we see today. Methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) was added to gas to help reduce kocking in engines when lead was phased out of gas. It's cheap and is made with natural gas and oil by products. It looked to be the perfect answer.

When the clean air act was passed mandating the use of 2% additives to add extra oxygen to gas. Since it was the only chemical that could be used at the time (easy to make and widely available) in effect congress mandated the use of MTBE. All was great until people realized that very little of it was needed to contaminate ground water.

The fear of "we have to do something now" lead to a bigger problem than if we had done nothing or at least spent the time to understand our options. We see history repeat itself over and over again.

Does anyone here really think that pickup trucks will be able to meet the mandate requiring light trucks to get an average of 35.5 MPG by 2016? Can you imagine trying to pull a trailer with a 5000 tractor on it with a truck that gets over 35 mpg? how would you like to be stuck behind one of these trucks as it's trying to drive up an ant hill?

Again common sense would have said before passing a mandate one should ask the question of will we be able to meet it? What will be the side effects if we do? Is it really in the country's best interest to pass this? And most importantly once we pass it and it turns out bad how (or can) we reverse it easily?