I guess that could be correct. In the past there was wood and other types involved in a mix. Any one remember Gasohol? That gave ethanol a bad name before it started. Was not ph balanced and a whole lot of other problems.
Ethanol on the Ropes?
- Thread starter Gale Hawkins
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SkyPup
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What kind of business can't survive without subsidies when government also mandates that consumers buy its products?
Historically the Federal government has helped a product compete in one of three ways:
1. Subsidize it
2. Protect it from competition
3. Require its use.
Ethanol is the only product ever to be receiving all three of these forms of support from the U.S. government at this time.
Historically the Federal government has helped a product compete in one of three ways:
1. Subsidize it
2. Protect it from competition
3. Require its use.
Ethanol is the only product ever to be receiving all three of these forms of support from the U.S. government at this time.
rustedduck
Member
The subject of ethanol makes the hair on my neck stand up.
It is not suitable in a marine enviorment.
Would you fly in an aircraft fueled with ethanol ? Thank god thats
not possible. Aviation gas is exempt from ethanol, because you would
have planes dropping out of the air. Its corrosive, and absorbs water.
If its so **** good, why cant you use in aircraft ?
Your government is selling you down the highway, and your payng the bill.
It is not suitable in a marine enviorment.
Would you fly in an aircraft fueled with ethanol ? Thank god thats
not possible. Aviation gas is exempt from ethanol, because you would
have planes dropping out of the air. Its corrosive, and absorbs water.
If its so **** good, why cant you use in aircraft ?
Your government is selling you down the highway, and your payng the bill.
OP
Gale Hawkins
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And we are done to one station in town that sell NO Alcohol labeled gas.
It is tight access in the MH and dump truck but worth the effort for the old pure gas designed vehicles that set for months at a time.:thumbsup:
It is tight access in the MH and dump truck but worth the effort for the old pure gas designed vehicles that set for months at a time.:thumbsup:
Was just skimming this thread this morning and this caught my eye:
Sorry, but that's ridiculous. There will be information pertaining to the allowable amount of ethanol in the gasoline you put in the tank, but "most manuals" saying that using ethanol at all voids your warranty? Nope.
Gather up all of the manuals from the equipment you own. Read them and if you find any with that exact statement, put them in one pile. Put the rest in another pile. Count the two piles and see if your *most manuals* contention stands up.
It won't.
Or perhaps you meant something else by "Ethanol based fuels". Gasoline with 10% ethanol blended in really doesn't qualify when looking at the big picture as an "ethanol based" fuel. Maybe you think it's a bad idea to put something in your gas tank that isn't gas at all....like say, a totally ethanol based concoction of some sort.
In that case, I'd say, "Yup, it probably isn't a good idea to put an entirely different fuel in a gas tank....other the gas it was meant to contain."
(Then again, I probably wouldn't say that, because it kind of goes without saying.)
Sorry, but that's ridiculous. There will be information pertaining to the allowable amount of ethanol in the gasoline you put in the tank, but "most manuals" saying that using ethanol at all voids your warranty? Nope.
Gather up all of the manuals from the equipment you own. Read them and if you find any with that exact statement, put them in one pile. Put the rest in another pile. Count the two piles and see if your *most manuals* contention stands up.
It won't.
Or perhaps you meant something else by "Ethanol based fuels". Gasoline with 10% ethanol blended in really doesn't qualify when looking at the big picture as an "ethanol based" fuel. Maybe you think it's a bad idea to put something in your gas tank that isn't gas at all....like say, a totally ethanol based concoction of some sort.
In that case, I'd say, "Yup, it probably isn't a good idea to put an entirely different fuel in a gas tank....other the gas it was meant to contain."
(Then again, I probably wouldn't say that, because it kind of goes without saying.)
OP
Gale Hawkins
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Ethanol: Let Protectionism Expire - Harry de Gorter & Jerry Taylor - National Review Online
While this is not going to knock ethanol out of the rink the article was an interesting read to me. With only a couple weeks left to act and an already over filled plate nothing may actually happen.
While this is not going to knock ethanol out of the rink the article was an interesting read to me. With only a couple weeks left to act and an already over filled plate nothing may actually happen.
ModMech
Platinum Member
Reference Volvo OM for 240, 1986 MY: 1986 Volvo 240
"Gasoline Containing Alcohol
Some fuel suppliers sell gasoline containing alcohol without advertising the presence of alcohol. If you are not sure whether there is alcohol in the gasoline you buy, check with the service station operator.
Blends of unleaded gasoline and ethanol (ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol), sometimes called "gasohol", are available in some areas. Gasohol, if used, must contain no more than 10 percent ethanol and must have an (R+M)/2 rating of 87 or higher. If you experience problems with starting, driveability, or fuel economy with gasohol, you should discontinue its use.
Take care not to spill gasoline during refueling. Gasolines containing alcohol can cause damage to painted surfaces, which may not be covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Do not use gasolines containing methanol (methyl alcohol, wood alcohol). This practice can result in vehicle performance deterioration and can damage critical parts in the fuel system. Such damage may not be covered under the New Vehicle Warranty."
Oregon State Maraine Board (Oregon.gov): Oregon State Marine Board E-10 (Ethanol) in Gasoline and Where to Find Non-Blended Gas
"Water Hazards
Ethanol absorbs water extremely well. Marine fuel systems are very susceptible to water intrusion. E10 has the ability to absorb a certain amount of water into solution and simply allow it to be burned by the engine. Here痴 the comparison: MTBE gasoline can hold about 60 ppm (parts per million) of water in solution; E10 can hold 6,000 to 7,000 ppm of water in solution. Meaning, if you have a 100 gallon (378.5 liters) tank, it could hold up to .6 - .7 gallons (2.3 2.6 liters) of water in solution.
The biggest problem with ethanol for an alternative is with 菟hase separation. That痴 what happens when the fuel is saturated beyond it痴 capacity to hold water in solution. Water and gasoline actually separate, and the gasoline floats on top of the water. With MTBE you could simply pump the water out from under the gasoline, or let your filters remove the water. With E10, ethanol blends more easily with any water. When phase separation occurs in E10, the ethanol is pulled out of the gas and absorbed by water. This results in two solutions, neither of which is good for the engine or fuel system?ot to mention the environment. The gasoline left behind is absent of oxygenate. The water left behind now contains a high concentration of ethanol; this solution is highly corrosive and damages any material it may come in contact with in the fuel system. The only solution for phase-separated fuel is to dispose of the entire fuel load, clean the tank, and start over with a fresh tank of E10.
E10痴 ability to absorb water has yet another drawback; it can absorb water directly from the atmosphere through the vent while simply sitting in the tank. In just 100 days at 70% humidity, E10 can absorb enough water to phase-separate. The shelf life of E10 is only 60-90 days if left without treatment."
"Gasoline Containing Alcohol
Some fuel suppliers sell gasoline containing alcohol without advertising the presence of alcohol. If you are not sure whether there is alcohol in the gasoline you buy, check with the service station operator.
Blends of unleaded gasoline and ethanol (ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol), sometimes called "gasohol", are available in some areas. Gasohol, if used, must contain no more than 10 percent ethanol and must have an (R+M)/2 rating of 87 or higher. If you experience problems with starting, driveability, or fuel economy with gasohol, you should discontinue its use.
Take care not to spill gasoline during refueling. Gasolines containing alcohol can cause damage to painted surfaces, which may not be covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Do not use gasolines containing methanol (methyl alcohol, wood alcohol). This practice can result in vehicle performance deterioration and can damage critical parts in the fuel system. Such damage may not be covered under the New Vehicle Warranty."
Oregon State Maraine Board (Oregon.gov): Oregon State Marine Board E-10 (Ethanol) in Gasoline and Where to Find Non-Blended Gas
"Water Hazards
Ethanol absorbs water extremely well. Marine fuel systems are very susceptible to water intrusion. E10 has the ability to absorb a certain amount of water into solution and simply allow it to be burned by the engine. Here痴 the comparison: MTBE gasoline can hold about 60 ppm (parts per million) of water in solution; E10 can hold 6,000 to 7,000 ppm of water in solution. Meaning, if you have a 100 gallon (378.5 liters) tank, it could hold up to .6 - .7 gallons (2.3 2.6 liters) of water in solution.
The biggest problem with ethanol for an alternative is with 菟hase separation. That痴 what happens when the fuel is saturated beyond it痴 capacity to hold water in solution. Water and gasoline actually separate, and the gasoline floats on top of the water. With MTBE you could simply pump the water out from under the gasoline, or let your filters remove the water. With E10, ethanol blends more easily with any water. When phase separation occurs in E10, the ethanol is pulled out of the gas and absorbed by water. This results in two solutions, neither of which is good for the engine or fuel system?ot to mention the environment. The gasoline left behind is absent of oxygenate. The water left behind now contains a high concentration of ethanol; this solution is highly corrosive and damages any material it may come in contact with in the fuel system. The only solution for phase-separated fuel is to dispose of the entire fuel load, clean the tank, and start over with a fresh tank of E10.
E10痴 ability to absorb water has yet another drawback; it can absorb water directly from the atmosphere through the vent while simply sitting in the tank. In just 100 days at 70% humidity, E10 can absorb enough water to phase-separate. The shelf life of E10 is only 60-90 days if left without treatment."
Loren49
Platinum Member
Much of the support for corn based ethanol subsidies comes from "red state", small government regions. Not brought up very often when reducing government spending is discussed.
Loren
Loren
