Wood stove woes

[JoeL4330]

do you bring in outside air directly to your woodstove? if not, you should consider this (in addition to all the other things you need to correct).

When your stove burns air/smoke goes up the chimney, exiting the house. That lost air has to be made up from the outside...the more you burn your woodstove, the more you bring in drafts through all the cracks everyone has already commented on it ...seal up every crack and you have a problem, the answer to which is to bring in the outside "make-up" air directly to your woodstove ...even with the poor weather seals you now have, bring in air directly and you will see a noticeable reduction in annoying (and cold) drafts right away. This is especially important if you have another source of heat...think about it, you have to run your other heat source just to burn your woodstove (that is, to warm the inrush of "makeup air".

And, take advantage of all the other suggestions, too.

 

[westcliffe01]

I'm guessing, but if the OP has venting which goes out the back of the stove, through the wall and the chimney is a vertical stack fully outside the house, this is the worst possible configuration for the kind of problem he is describing.

By being near to the eve, it legally only has to extend the shortest height. In addition, the flue gasses get cooled severely in that exposed vertical stack, particularly when the fire enters the coaling stage. Enough cooling and there is not sufficient buoyancy for the smoke to rise when it leaves the chimney. Sometimes it can be seen spilling out the flue and descending down to the ground.... what a mess. These chimneys have a tendency to back flow into the house with a cold stove, or as soon as the fire burns down beyond a certain point. CO poisoning is possible besides the other nasty stuff, which one can at least detect easily...

Unfortunately, this tends to be the most commonly installed flue, particularly if done by the building contractor when the house is built. Many home plans also have this dreaded "fireplace and flue" on an outside wall. If the wall happens to be on the North or North west side, that also tends to be a high pressure wind side in winter, so even more issues with smoke being forced back into the house on low burn.

Eddie tried to do everything right with his install, like many of the rest of us who try to gather information, analyze the options before buying or installing anything. Others don't do this or fall into a situation where someone installed something years before and try to make the best of it...

It sounds to me that the stove is probably best relocated inside the great room and the venting run inside the building and out near the peak on the downwind side of the roof. This will also position the stove in a more central location and totally solve the smoke issue. And if you buy quality long lengths (5') of single wall stovepipe, the heat recovered from the wood will be substantially higher. You won't find this at your local big box store. Order online at Vent Pipe Diameter View All Stove Pipe, Page 1

It is perfectly legal to use several of the telescoping lengths which go up to 68" in length as opposed to 48" max with typical single wall lengths. It is unbelievable how much better and straighter an install looks with fewer joints and high quality stovepipe. It make getting an exact length a breeze and also disassembly is easier.

Anyway, I may be wrong, but this is a typical back flowing, smoke spilling scenario that one sees a million times over in the midwest.

 

[forgeblast]

Having problems with my camera---actually i brought the wrong usb cable, when i get home today ill post the pics they will explain more then i can write right now.

Also where it is located is best for now for it being safe/secure.
We have a two year old, so putting up plastic sheeting over the windows or doors is a no-no, moving the woodstove to where she can reachit is also to use her words "no way" "no way", at least right now.

What about the draw, if its 20'-30' of pipe thats a lot of pipe to push heat through on a cold start to get the pipe clear of the start up smoke.

As far as humidifers, (i grew up with wood heat, have been using it at this house for the last 10 years, cut and split all my own wood), we have a big 5 gallon one in the mud room, and smaller ones in each bedroom. Growing up it got so dry in our house my dad had his lung get stuck to his chest(not sure of the medical term) he said it hurt!!!

I also worry about putting in pipe with guy lines. We do get some nasty wind and having a pipe come crashing down when burning wood does not sound like fun.

It is the smoke coming in the doors, the windows seal very good, they are double anderson casement windows so that when they lock the seal very nicely.
The attic was done last year, has an r of at least 55 in the floor, and r30 in the joists. the floor is also covered with 3/4 t/g plywood.

The pipe comes out of the top of the wood stove, (6'') black) and goes into the ceiling, where it connects and hits stainless as it comes out of the house, its a streight shot. no bends.

woodstove, pipe, humidifer, and Zona our dog.

sliding door fix (door is open)

sliding door closed (yes that much foam had to be used, I might even put another layer.)

shows the house, with the chimney (pay no attention to the nasty stucco, it will be covered in fieldstone by next year.)

 

[dmccarty]

We have casement windows in the house house and they are air tight which is why we installed them. I do not see how the casements will leak the house air out and the smoke air in. I wonder if the framing around the windows is leaking air?

Our stove only puts out visible smoke at start up or when it has died down quite a bit and we put on more wood. But I can often smell the fire when outside even though I can see no smoke. Last night I went out to get firewood and I smelled smoke next to the house but there surely was not any visible. It was a windy day and the "smoke" some how was pooled up back there. I have seen the smoke from our stove and others just lay down on the ground if the weather conditions are right. It does not happen often but it happens.

I am wondering if the wifey is smelly smoke or seeing it? If you do not have an outside source for combustion air those leaky doors are going to be pulling in that cold outside air for the fire. More so than without the fire. The smoke might just be getting pulled into the house with the air to feed the fire. Which is rather ironic.

Our combustion air is supplied by a six inch PVC pipe that runs under the slab and pops up on the hearth behind the stove. When the stove is running if you can feel quite a bit of air flow from the pipe. Since the air pops up behind the stove it is either consumed by the fire or heated before getting out in the room. That amount of air being pulled from the door/window leaks would really chill the house down. If you do not have an outside air combustion supply getting one might help as well.

I do not think this will help your situation except for the sliding glass doors. In our city house we had metal windows. Great idea. You did not have to paint or worry about rot but the energy efficiency was only slightly better than a hole in the wall. I went to HD and bought sheets of clear plastic. I think they were 3'x6'. I found some painted metal edging that fit over the plastic. I cut the plastic to fit the windows and sliding glass doors. Those inserts really helped keep the house warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer. I still have the inserts too. I use them to keep water off the wood piles at the new house.

Here is a link about proper chimney distances.... Height & Clearance Requirements for Chimneys - how high must a chimney be, what other chimney clearances are required for fire safety or function?

Later,
Dan

 

[RonMar]

You need more chimney... As airflow passes over the house, it does two things. 1. It creates a boundry layer that flows along the surface. This includes flowing downward along the roof on the leeward side of the home. 2. Above the boundry layer it creates turbulence. Both of these effects cause the horizontal airflow to eddy, or outright re-direct it toward the ground. Your A frame roof can even make this effect more extreme. The reason for the chimney rising above the surrounding roof line is to get any smoke above this air being redirected toward the ground, so it just blows away and dissipates. That way it only comes down due to a naturally occuring downdraft. Grew up in an A frame with a woodstove and a tall chimney was a must...

If you don't have one already, you should really install an external air duct to the wood stove, preferably plummed directly to the combustion air inlet on the stove. This will take internal room air pressure out of the combustion equation, and will greatly reduce the ammount of smoke that makes it back into the room as you tend the fire. It also reduces the ammount of cold air brought into the house thru leaks in the shell due to the vacume created by the woodstove draft up the flue.

As mentioned, a smaller hotter fire burns cleaner and creates less smoke and creosote buildup in the flue. It also creates a better draft in the flue.

Long term, heating a tall room with hot air is folly, as already noted, since it sorts by density, all the thin/hot air goes right up to the peak. Radiant floor heating is the best heat for these situations, as the ammount of heat transfer to the air is lowest. Depending on your floor composition, there are several retrofit designs that may work for you.

Another option for you would be to use that hot air up in the peak to heat fresh air from the outside thru an air to air heat exchanger. This would require an air duct up to the peak of the roof to draw in that warm air. The warm air gets blown outside thru the primary side of the heatex, which heats the fresh incomming air. This would give you a large volume of fresh outside air without really requiring any additional energy, save that of the air blower. This may help with your wife's air quality issues.

I am planning on building a dome home in the next year. It will incorporate both the radiant floor and the air-air heatex fed with warm air from the top of the dome.

Good luck with your situation.

 

[irvingj]

I was going to mention a heat exchanger... I have one in my house; it came with the package, as the house was meant to be pretty well airtight.

They aren't inexpensive, but they are really worth their weight in gold, IMO. They're now called HRVs, "Heat Recovery Ventilators."

I ducted mine from two bathroom ceiling exhaust fans and one spot near the kitchen; this exhaust air is used to heat incoming fresh air, which I have blowing into the basement. From there, it gets picked up by the heat pump's air handler and circulated throughout the house.

The nice thing is, it also supplies a means for fresh air intake for the wood stove, which is also in the basement. Even if the air exchanger fan isn't running, fresh outside air can be drawn in via the intake duct (4" round).

It can be 20 below outside, and if inside air is around 70, the outside air being brought in through this air exchanger will be 40. Years ago, when I still smoked in the house (though only in the basement), a pal who stopped by asked if I still smoked-- my house smelled better than his (and he didn't smoke!). He bought one of these things soon after.

So- you can both improve inside air quality and provide fresh (pre-heated) combustion air for the woodstove with one of these things.

I should probably also mention that the house designers were quite upset at my penetrating the insulated shell of the house with a chimney, but there was no way I was going to run my chimney outside the house. As has been mentioned, that's an excellent way to chill the flue gasses and create a lot of creosote. I ran mine right up through the center of the house from the basement to the highest part of the roof, and then a few more feet of height outside.

Sorry! Some more food for thought....

 

[ToadHill]

You really need to raise the chimney. I had the same problem several years ago. As I look at the placement of the chimney I can see how it is lower than the top of the house. I don't know which way the wind blows but if it comes from the right side of your picture, the pressure will build up against the taller building and eventually blow down the chimney.

My setup was just like yours, when I got the chimney about 2' above the highest roofline the problem went away.

 

[johnk]

Too bad you don't have a wood burner that uses outside air for the firebox. I have a New Englander and it has the option to run a 3" duct from outside for the firebox. When you use a wood burner all that air is coming from the house and going up the chimney. This causes negative pressure in the house and the air will try to equalize the inside pressure by drawing air through the least insulated or sealed areas. A super insulated tight dwelling doesn't bode well with a wood burner using the inside air for burning which in turn causes that negative pressure.

 

[Skyco]

I also worry about putting in pipe with guy lines. We do get some nasty wind and having a pipe come crashing down when burning wood does not sound like fun.

Thats why you guy it, so it won't come down

BTW as a deputized member of the safety police those curtains in the first pic look too close to the stove, but pics can be deceiving, just don't want you to burn your house down:thumbsup:

 

[forgeblast]

They are pulled to the side when we are burning, "my wife didnt want the house to look messy"(arggg).
So my plan is to
1. get the chimney taller, Yes it is on the north side of the house, so the wind in the winter blows it south, into the slider doors that let smoke in.
2. replace the slider doors (this spring is when we have it planned for)
3. put in an outside air kit to the wood stove. You are all right that it pulls air into the stove from the house, eg open the front door to put wood in and the fire burns hotter.

my question how is a combustion kit installed. the ones i looked at had a vent(like a dryer to the outside, and then its attached to the stove.
this is a quadafire 3100f, does anyone know where to attach the kit to that. went to the website for quadafire and didnt see any manuals.

really appreciate all the help, it means a lot to us to get the stove working at its best.