Starting Trouble - New battery acts dead?

[jcm102]

Hello everyone,

I have a Jinma 284. It is acting like it has a dead battery. Since the tractor is 5 years old and I was on the original, I replaced it yesterday. The battery has amply cranking amps (more than the original). It is very cold here so I am using the glow plugs to get it to fire. The engine won't hardly crank? Very slow to turn over if it does at all. When I put a tester on the battery, the voltage really dives (down to around 9) when I try to start. I put a portable jump starter on it but that won't work either.

Is something going out that is pulling down the voltage and making it seem as if the battery is dead?

Thanks in advance for any help

John

 

[jcm102]

No luck yet

I checked the new battery, pulled the wires from the battery and the starter. I hit all with a wire brush and made sure they were sparkling clean. I chatted with a Jinma service guy who said the starter may be going bad causing an overdraw on the battery? So, I pulled the starter and took it to an auto parts house. They put it on their brand new tester and the starter is fine. The boys around the parts house think there must be some other bad connection that is keeping the battery from delivering full juice to the starter?

I am at a loss as to where to begin to look for a bad connection now. Any thoughts out there?

John

 

[jimmysisson]

Any chance your starter is trying to turn more than just the engine? Like a PTO load or hydraulic pump load? Over-heavy oil in the engine or hydro? Half-frozen coolant slush in the water pump? How about a weak contact in the solenoid not transmitting full amps?
For a temporary work-around, you could try an engine heater, not a bad idea even if you have no starting concerns. If the starter is really ok, and the connections are clean, you should be good to go. Did it run fine when it last did?
Jim

 

[Craig Clayton]

Seeing that you have had the starter in and out it might be an ideal time to give it a little clean up. I have taken many starters/motors apart. When you regrease with moly grease in the correct spots and clean the bendix up they work just like new.
Craig Clayton

 

[silvertramp]

You could try new cables. They sometimes corrode internally, altho 5 years is fairly new. Take the neg. ground off of the frame and wire brush/grind the connection point.

 

[SPYDERLK]

No luck yet
I am at a loss as to where to begin to look for a bad connection now. Any thoughts out there?
John

Any chance your starter is trying to turn more than just the engine? Like a PTO load or hydraulic pump load? Over-heavy oil in the engine or hydro? Jim

An implement on the 3ph that it is trying to lift while cranking?
larry

 

[Giles]

Hello everyone,

I have a Jinma 284. It is acting like it has a dead battery. Since the tractor is 5 years old and I was on the original, I replaced it yesterday. The battery has amply cranking amps (more than the original). It is very cold here so I am using the glow plugs to get it to fire. The engine won't hardly crank? Very slow to turn over if it does at all. When I put a tester on the battery, the voltage really dives (down to around 9) when I try to start. I put a portable jump starter on it but that won't work either.

Is something going out that is pulling down the voltage and making it seem as if the battery is dead?

Thanks in advance for any help

John

A few questions---
(1)Were you having the cranking problem with old battery? If yes, you can pretty much assume the battery is not the problem.

(2) After starting--with a warm engine, does it crank ok? If it has not been started, can you pull start the machine? You need to get the engine warm for a complete diagnosis. You could have an added load on engine and as stated could be hydraulic or could also be an internal engine problem.

 

[J_J]

Add a jumper battery to the new battery, and see if it will start any better. Some battery's just don't have the APH/ampere hours for a good diesel start capability. My diesel truck uses two batteries to start.

 

[zzvyb6]

Put a torpedoe heater on it and warm it up for an hour or so.

 

[SandburRanch]

Don't know what kind of wire brush was used to clean but a common wire brush won't clean lead oxide from battery cable connections and battery posts. To get from dark gray lead color to bright silver lead color a battery terminal brush or your trusty pocket knife is needed.

 

[jcm102]

Jimmy,

Coolant is good, nothing attached to the PTO, and rear blade is down and so is the lever; so it's not trying to lift it at start up. You asked about a bad contact in the solenoid? I read something last night in a different forum about the commutator and how they are prone to rust and need to be cleaned. Is this what you are referring to? Then I looked at my owner's book and it discusses "poor contact of brush and communatator" as a cause of the starter running idle or with no compression, but fails to start the engine. When the guys at Napa put it on their tester, it really jumped out and spun like mad, but of course there was NO load it was turning.

I'm going to get a heater pointed at it because I know the oil thickens up when it's cold. I am curious about the solenoid you discussed and if there is a way to test it. I am thinking about pulling the starter again and seeing if the inside needs cleaning.

Thanks to everyone so far, still working on it. The snow quit flying, so I'm feeling less pressure but I have to get this done so I can clean up what's fallen

John

 

[Willl]

Do you have a volt meter ?

A voltage drop in the connections or the cables themselves could easily be found with a volt meter.

Or you can just keep replacing parts.

 

[Craig Clayton]

Another idea is to find some other cables and place the battery beside the tractor and hook them on in such a way as to get it to run. I had a experience with a bad (new ) battery that would not start the car. I put a good battery on the ground and using booster cables had a gasoline car in the parking lot, charging ,running perfect. Replaced the battery and life was great.
Craig Clayton

 

[kenstrac]

If you have a good set of jumper cables put the - on the battery and ground it as close to the starter as possible,best place would be on the bolt that holds the starter to the bell housing.
Take the + and run it to the the + on the battery and to the + on the starter.
Make sure you have a charged battery.

 

[Egon]

It is very cold here

How cold is cold??

Is the clutch disengaged when trying to start?

 

[mmurphy]

Do you have a volt meter ?

A voltage drop in the connections or the cables themselves could easily be found with a volt meter.

Or you can just keep replacing parts.

:thumbsup:
Check from battery post to post on starter. Positive end of meter to battery post, neg of meter to end of cable attached to solenoid post. Voltage should read 0. Have some one crank engine, if you are now showing over .3 volt you have to much voltage drop. You are checking voltage potential, when you have voltage potential you have resistance causing that.

Amp guage would not do any good if some strands are not making contact.

 

[jcm102]

FIXED!!!!!!!

I removed the starter and took it apart. The Commutator inside was filthy with what looked like carbon build up. It is sparkling clean now. I also cleaned up the brush connections inside. Put it back together and the tractor jumped to life. Thank you all for the help and suggestions. I'm sure that cleaning up all the grounds and fixing loose connections all helped the juice get there.

Thanks again everyone

John

 

[SPYDERLK]

FIXED!!!!!!!

I removed the starter and took it apart. The Commutator inside was filthy with what looked like carbon build up. It is sparkling clean now. I also cleaned up the brush connections inside. Put it back together and the tractor jumped to life. Thank you all for the help and suggestions. I'm sure that cleaning up all the grounds and fixing loose connections all helped the juice get there.

Thanks again everyone

John

You know why it tested good at the store? cuz it was warm an the crud didnt cause it to mess up.
larry

 

[pat32rf]

Plus, as you mentioned, there was NO LOAD on the starter while being "tested"...

 

[Bigmakattak]

History repeats itself. Good posts here from 2010 for my 2025 issue. 1985 John Deere 1250. Takes a high amp Nocco starter box to start the machine with a new battery already in it. Tried most other things discussed here earlier. Just jumping from another tractor does not work. The only difference that i may have is that dash board lights do not come on until battery has extra amperage induced in it. Would that take the starter out of play?
Seems like ground wire or a short is the issue but I am no expert.. Ground wire is bolted into the frame though. Could it be weak key switch?
I have not tried new cables for that possibility of internal cable corrosion.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks.