Lawsuit regarding E15

   / Lawsuit regarding E15 #51  
Some of the naysayers of the benefits of alcohol fuels ought to do a little research on Brazil's ethanol industry. Again, no issues over the years here, of course, I mow the grass weekly too. My boat(ib/ob) runs a tank at a time, no issues. Motorcycles, no issues( Nothing lasts forever so carb cleaning and rebuild after 10 years does not count in my book). G0-cart-fine, pit bike-fine. 41 ford runs just fine. Just a note: since this fuel is splash blended, maybe your problems are from local blenders/ excesses? E85 is guaranteed at 70% min. E10.E15 really don't care what happens as long as I can get the E85. Love that stuff.

Brazil makes their ethanol out of sugarcane nd it has a higher btu than corn based ethanol. It's more efficent. and their cars are smaller anyway.
 
   / Lawsuit regarding E15 #52  
Cars and trucks use a sealed system which controls emissions and does not allow outside air into the fuel mix except at point of combustion. Boat fuel tanks use an OPEN system with a vent on the side of the hull which allows for pressure in the tank to equalize, thus allowing outside air into the tank

So what happens during every step of the refinery-to-market process? Transport tanks are vented to atmosphere, storage tanks are vented to atmosphere, and when the fill cap is off of the tank on a car or light truck during fueling, the "sealed" system is very much vented to atmosphere. Putting the fuel into a vehicle with a closed fuel system and believing that it's "beneficially" sealed from the atmosphere then, is kind of like putting the leftovers from dinner into the fridge after they've already sat out for a couple of days. Even parts of the country that are picky about storage tanks being vented to atmosphere without having some sort of vapor recovery setup installed have exclusions. For example in some places, vapor recovery setups aren't required until the daily volume of fuel dispensed reaches 4000 gallons or so. So smaller stations pumping less than that have a standpipe sticking up in the air with a rain cap on it....that's it. The boat versus car/open versus "sealed" comparison is at best a non-issue. Whether boat owners want to admit it or not, most of the fuel issues they experience come from either not using recommended fuels, or, fuel storage problems due to infrequent use.

The question gets asked all the time, and never gets answered in threads like this. Why does guy "A" using E10 experience no issues with E10, while guy "B" does?

Newer engines are designed to handle E10 and specifically state that any more than 10% will VOID the manufacturer's warranty.

So follow the manufacturers recommendations. The original post linked to the lawsuit website, where concerns were voiced about how some owners might risk potential damage by putting in fuel not recommended for use.....'cause it might save them $$ on a fill-up. That's just funny to me.

Lawnmowers, chainsaws, weed eaters are all prone to E10 damage too. Storing fuel for more than a few weeks is a real problem for these engines.

Once again, why is this an issue? If a person buys a new mower and it says right in the manual, (often in several places), to not use fuel that's been stored for a couple of months....why do it? Guy "A" referenced in the scenario above likely follows the manufacturer's recommendations, whereas guy "B" does not. I see it every day, and there's really no other way to describe the behavior....other than, "Load gun, shoot self in foot".

Have you guys seen this video? Watch closely and see how a "marine mechanic" explains things. Count how many errors and misconceptions this guy has spread all over the 'net. He sounds credible to the uninformed....but I'd like to see his grade school transcript. Somethin' tells me science wasn't among his strong points:

YouTube - How Ethanol Gas Attracts Water from the Air - Demonstration
 
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   / Lawsuit regarding E15 #53  
Brazil makes their ethanol out of sugarcane nd it has a higher btu than corn based ethanol. It's more efficent. and their cars are smaller anyway.

Not arguing that there are more and better sources for the production of ethanol, just that it is one of many alternatives. Manure, garbage, etc. are great source of energy also. What does the size of the car matter? Doesn't the BTU content follow the purity or proof of the alcohol? Nobody is complaining on here over the price of sugar for production of fuel. A lot of moldy corn gets burned for heat in the mid-west. There will always be this for and against argument out there regardless of how good or bad it is perceived. The first diesel engines ran on plant derived fuels. Cheap sources of easy or cheap energy are gone forever. Any alternative sources we figure out are game in my book. "Energy is neither created, nor destroyed, merely converted from one form to another."
 
   / Lawsuit regarding E15 #54  
You bring up 'mom and pop' stations. Typically they sell 'unbranded gas' right? Usually 'no name' fuel? No "shell' or 'exxon' etc?

I found out recently that insurance companies are selling fuel from vehicles totalled out in accidents to companies who go around to salvage pools and suck the fuel out of the cars and pay the insurance companies for te fuel and then sell it to the 'mom and pop' unbranded stations,

The fuel as extracted from the salvage vehicles is all comingled without respect to grade, ethanol content, age etc. The company doing the extraction does not even filter the gas they extract before they sell ot to the unbranded stations.


There is a filter on the pump you pump from at the station, pull the lower panel off you will see. Around here they get shell gas from the same tank farm others get it from? Not saying i want some stale concoction from clunkers and such at a junk yard though.
 
   / Lawsuit regarding E15 #55  
"Energy is neither created, nor destroyed, merely converted from one form to another."
It is wasteful to use corn for Ethanol because corn is the least efficient crop and takes more energy to convert than sugarcane. It is not even close. That energy is electricity which 50% is produce in the USA by burning coal.

There is no supported data anywhere that grass only raised beef is healthier than corn or by-product finished beef. I've had cattle for 50 years and all our cattle are grass fed beef that get finished off in feed lots. We have the safest beef in the world at the best prices. 50 million head of cattle belong to small rancher/farmers in cow/calf operations. There are 95 million head in the USA. When you change the feed source and it takes 25% longer to get an animal to be ready for market. You will force the small guy to reduce his herd size 25%. The Small guy is where the numbers are, so now you will be reducing the supply by a double digit percentile and increase the price exponentially.

Don't equate hamburger as the total product of beef. You are increasing the fat content of beef with hamburger. When you reduce the protein you feed cattle you will increase the amounts of the cuts of meat that are used for hamburger.
 
   / Lawsuit regarding E15 #56  
It is wasteful to use corn for Ethanol because corn is the least efficient crop and takes more energy to convert than sugarcane. It is not even close. That energy is electricity which 50% is produce in the USA by burning coal.

There is no supported data anywhere that grass only raised beef is healthier than corn or by-product finished beef. I've had cattle for 50 years and all our cattle are grass fed beef that get finished off in feed lots. We have the safest beef in the world at the best prices. 50 million head of cattle belong to small rancher/farmers in cow/calf operations. There are 95 million head in the USA. When you change the feed source and it takes 25% longer to get an animal to be ready for market. You will force the small guy to reduce his herd size 25%. The Small guy is where the numbers are, so now you will be reducing the supply by a double digit percentile and increase the price exponentially.

Don't equate hamburger as the total product of beef. You are increasing the fat content of beef with hamburger. When you reduce the protein you feed cattle you will increase the amounts of the cuts of meat that are used for hamburger.

Numbers can be skewed whatever way makes sense at the time for a given objective. I love corn fed beef, I eat a lot of it. We grow lots of corn too. That was a quote to ponder.
 
   / Lawsuit regarding E15 #57  
It is wasteful to use corn for Ethanol because corn is the least efficient crop and takes more energy to convert than sugarcane. It is not even close. .
This is one of the points I was trying to get across.

The other is the 'extra' pollution caused by the ethanol here in the states. You don't need to take my word for it, Google the studies for increases in cancer, and other diseases, that have been occurring in states that mandate more ethanol. You will see the links............can't miss them.

Then google the amount of oil we have right here in our own country.........enough to sustain the United States for 300 to 500 years as I posted previously, but the government keeps shutting down oil operations.
 
   / Lawsuit regarding E15 #58  
................................

Then google the amount of oil we have right here in our own country.........enough to sustain the United States for 300 to 500 years as I posted previously, but the government keeps shutting down oil operations.

They're looking out for our future. Why use up our reserves when we can use up someone elses? After OPECs oil is gone, we'll be the oil barons.:laughing:




...and no I don't believe that. I just thought it would be a humorus comment.
 
   / Lawsuit regarding E15 #59  
Saw on the news yesterday that the EPA is going to increase ethanol beyond E15... I'm screwed, truck is 1994 and one car is 1989, my new Toyota is OK. I'll have to start looking around for pure gas if still available? I believe the goal is to remove all small trucks and cars greater than ten years old. Cash for clunkers didn't work, I'm still not going to buy a GM vehicle. If Congress passes a law that says I must buy a GM vehicle every five years, it will be time to leave my country, I do have options.

mark
 
   / Lawsuit regarding E15 #60  
They're looking out for our future. Why use up our reserves when we can use up someone elses? After OPECs oil is gone, we'll be the oil barons.:laughing:

...and no I don't believe that. I just thought it would be a humorus comment.

I have seriously thought of that possibility. But then I realized that "long term planning" for a politician is only as far as the next election. :(

Ken
 

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