Do computes and high-end electronics belong in tractors?

[crazyal]

I have this great timing light. It's got an LCD display for setting all sorts of things like setting up points and timing. I haven't used it for years. I doubt you could find a new car that uses points or a distributor that can be adjusted sold anywhere in the world. Who here remembers the problems points had?

I'm happy that a better system has evolved over the old tech. I don't want a steel cable running of the motor going to a needle to tell me how fast my engine is turning. Quite frankly they break. I don't want a tube connected to an oil line running to a gauge telling me my oil pressure. I don't want an idiot light that if it fails I'll never know until it's too late. I want a system that monitors all of this for me and when it sees a problem it tells me.

 

[nspec]

It's not a question of if this technology will last 20 years in a harsh environment - it already has. I keep telling people, this stuff has been here for years already and you haven't even known it. It's just now becoming slightly more advanced and user friendly now that it has some miles and years under it's belt. We just now are at the point where the user/operator is actually able to interface with it.

I'll put it this way: John Deere, Caterpillar, Komatsu, Volvo, CaseIH, and a whole lot more spend MILLIONS of dollars on R&D. Do you really think they would put a technology into the field - a very competitive field - if it wasn't ready to stand up to the rigors?

Let me ask you all this - If you where running a machine for a living, not a hobby, would you choose to sit in a climate controlled cab, with an active ride controlled seat, listening to satellite radio and monitoring computer screens while controlling the machine via electro-hydraulic pilot levers, or would you rather run that old D-9 all day from an open station, deaf and sunburned at the end of the day, sore from standing up on the brake pedals to get that old son-of-a-gun to turn, sore arms and shoulders from that lousy blade control and steering clutches, throwing the clutch lever 3 feet every time you made a direction change....

I know which is more fun... but productivity reigns supreme.

 

[Glassback]

We've seen the same thing in fire apparatus. The new ones have displays telling you which compartment got left open, the status of every fluid and filter, cameras, proximity sensors and a ton of other information. We're also not riding on the tailboard or sitting in an open cab getting snowed on anymore, when you're doing it for a living, babysitting a downed wire for 2hrs in an ice storm until the power company comes along is a godsend.

But I just joined this site because I'm looking to buy my first tractor to replace my bad back. I can turn a wrench and want to buy used to save cash. I won't be making a living on the thing and won't be on it 8 hour days. I want to push snow, grade the driveway, move firewood, manage the garden, chickens, and hopefully some other livestock. I also want it to be something I can fix a lot of it myself when something goes wrong. I love my '88 Volvo 240 wagon, and my '95 Chevy pick-up. Yes, they both have computers, but I can repair most things myself. The Chevy you can read the trouble codes yourself with a paperclip jumper in the data link connector and count the flashes on the check engine light. The wife's '07 Honda Pilot I can't even do an oil change without bringing it back to the dealer to reset the code.

How many years back do I have to go so a shade tree mechanic can handle most tractor repairs and maintenance? Is anyone still making them simple but quality? Less bells and whistles the better for me.

 

[Baby Grand]

I have this great timing light. It's got an LCD display for setting all sorts of things like setting up points and timing. I haven't used it for years. I doubt you could find a new car that uses points or a distributor that can be adjusted sold anywhere in the world. Who here remembers the problems points had?

I'm happy that a better system has evolved over the old tech. I don't want a steel cable running of the motor going to a needle to tell me how fast my engine is turning. Quite frankly they break. I don't want a tube connected to an oil line running to a gauge telling me my oil pressure. I don't want an idiot light that if it fails I'll never know until it's too late. I want a system that monitors all of this for me and when it sees a problem it tells me.

I'm with you up to a point(s). I remember replacing points and condenser as a routine part of a 10k mile tune up (remember those?). Plugs lasted about 20k. Electronic ignition is a huge improvement. I burn much less fuel per HP and the exhaust fumes are a lot cleaner. Plus I just replace the plugs at 50k intervals and they often look like they could go back in for another 10k or two.

But I draw the line at the digital dash. My personal car experience is that it's trouble prone and expensive to fix when it does go titts up. My experience with the electronic dash on the tractor is that you always have to take your eyes off the task you're doing and look directly at the durn thing and then read it to know what's going on. With analog gauges I can keep track of everything using only my peripheral vision. Only time I need to take my eyes off the job is if the needle starts wandering into the wrong part of the scale. Much safer, productive, and enjoyable for me.

-Jim

 

[nspec]

I'm with you 100% on the 'analog' guages. Needles are the way to go. You all realize that a lot of those needles are electronic, right? My Kubota still has a tachometer cable, but I've run Cat machines where the 'analog' needles are just fed via an electronic signal. You'd never know the difference.

 

[Kendrick]

there is both good and bad to it. it needs to be used in the appropriate places.

1 cut off switches/sensors. they have been far overused for "safty" chair switches on riding mowers and several cutoff items on cuts can be done with out. lights on the dash im good with or wont start in gear/pto enabled. but their use should be sparing.

2 fuel efficency both a blessing and curse from electronics. if standardised diags are available and as many universal parts as possible for engine control are used its all good board swapping is good as long as parts are available.

3 drive by wire and other accessory electronics. nice and all as long as they can be quickly disenaged when malfunctioning and the units use unhampered while disabled.

I love computers as much as i love welding together an impliment. im happy to use advanced electronics in the tractors if it is implimented properly. cramming crap in because you can = WRONG! if there is a little lcd display that shows where the offending sensor is and or lists trouble codes as you go = good stuff. the commercial equipment is done well now hopefully the cuts wont get the fancy crap but commercial equivelents.

 

[wvpolekat]

There are a few things here that puzzle me.

I see that many of you that are not happy that you can't fix these things yourself.

How many of you can rebuild an injector pump? Bore a scored cylinder? Rebuild a hydraulic valve? Grind valves?

Guess my point is that there have always been items you can't repair at home or bypass/work around if they fail. This is just another.

But, this one, we do have some hope of being able to repair. The shop isnt going to open up an ECU and replace a failed capacitor. They are going to swap the whole thing. Just like we can. As long as the cable is reasonably priced, plugging a laptop in is no big deal.

Just a little something new to learn.

As for gauges, one of the advantages of things being electronic is that you can have some logic in them. You don't need to look at them. A warning light can be made to come on when attention is needed or there is a change instead of once things have failed completely.

And, I am not buying that anyone can read a gauge with their peripheral vision. Your eyes aren't made that way. They are easier to read at a glance maybe, but you still have to look at them for your eyes to focus on them and process it. Even faster would be a red light/green light arrangement, then you wouldn't have to look at it.

Let's also be realistic. Expecting them to put in redundant systems to act as a backup when the electronics fail? I am sure they would, but you wouldn't pay the 2x price for the machine it would cost you. Yes, lost production costs money in construction, but your money would be better spent on second machine for backup, or a service contract that would limit your downtime or provide you with a loaner.

As others have said, these technologies are proven and systemic failures are rare.

 

[nspec]

Very well put, wvpolekat.

 

[jinman]

I can't resist showing this picture of the Dassault Falcon 7X cockpit. It's about as far as you can go away from analog gages (referred to as "steam" gages ). There is also no traditional yoke for ailerons and elevator, just rudder pedals and side panel joysticks. The Boeing 787 cockpit is similar, but it does have control yokes. I just hope we don't have to start paying similar prices for our tractors in the near future.:thumbdown:

I do like electronics, but it's a bit intimidating when a tractor stops in the middle of the field with an error code displayed and won't budge. It would be nice to have a "limp home" mode that allowed you to get the tractor out of the field if the failure wasn't too catastrophic.:thumbsup:

 

[wvpolekat]

I do like electronics, but it's a bit intimidating when a tractor stops in the middle of the field with an error code displayed and won't budge. It would be nice to have a "limp home" mode that allowed you to get the tractor out of the field if the failure wasn't too catastrophic.:thumbsup:

Agreed. My truck will even run with no coolant in a limp mode.