Grapple valve set-up

[Degolyerent]

I am in the planning stages for adding a grapple with 2 hydraulic cylinders to my MX4700, I priced elec/ hydraulic valve kits and they were outrageous so now I am planning to put the kit together myself
I looked on line to find out about what type of hydraulic pump and what the flow was and what I found out was open center pump with total flow of 14.4 gpm and valve flow of 9.5 gpm I also read that the power steering uses 4.9 gpm so I assume that I need a 2 solenoid valve that can handle 9.5 gpm
I went on line to baileynet.com and researched valves and called them and discussed my set- up with them and they recommend the 220-313 it is a 3 pos. Spring center tandem 12v 12gpm and a sub plate 220319 which uses npt threads the cost were 133 for the valve and 33 for the sub plate
I still have to find a electrical switch set- up for the FEL handle does any one have any ideas they can run past me on that?
I also wonder if I am on the right track? Any thoughts? I can design and build my brackets with little problem as my girlfriend works for a manufacture of metal parts and they have made stuff for me before
I am going to have Hose Boss make my hoses I will also get the necessary QD's and other fitings
John

 

[kennyd]

The valve you quoted sounds like the correct one-pretty much what the Surplus Center sells. As for a switch-if you are trying to do it on the cheap then you will have to make you own...custom handles can run into hundreds of dollars! You will need a DPDT switch. I suspect you will still have over $400 in getting everything working properly, so you will have to decide if saving a few dollars is worth all the extra work.

 

[Degolyerent]

I have always worked on my own stuff,rebuilding motors of various types, transmissions, front end work etc. I have not done much hydraulic work though but when they want $800-$1000 for a kit I will try to assemble one on my own, especially with the help of all the knowledge of people in this forum! I have read quite a bit
And copied pictures of apps like I am doing, can you spell out what you abbreviated as I don't know exactly what you mean? I want to thank all the people that have helped me so far, I have not orderd the parts yet as I wanted to make sure I would order the proper stuff
Thanks again
John

 

[kennyd]

Who is the "they" that are quoting $800 to $1000? WR Long should have one for $600 to $700 or so.

Double Pole Double Throw is what I abbreviated. It's a 3-position switch that has a center OFF position, and is momentary (spring loaded) on the other two positions.

 

[J_J]

Degolyerent,

Do you actually want two valves to operate the grapple? You can operate each side of the grapple, or operate them both together. Even though you may have two cyl, if they are plumbed in parallel, they both will operate together, and the side with the least resistance will use the fluid first to close, and when the resistance is the same on both grapples, they both work together.

For instance, if you are picking up a med size rock, the one grapple not in contact with the rock will operate first, and when that side is fully closed, then the grapple with the rock will close and the operation is complete.

This is what a lot of people use for the valve. It is a selector valve, and is installed in the curl circuit. In normal tractor operation, the curl circuit is functional, flip the switch on, and the grapple circuit is now functional.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-5117&catname=hydraulic

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-5117.pdf

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7852&catname=hydraulic

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-7852.pdf

 

[Degolyerent]

J_J
I don't want to work the sides independently is that what a tandem valve does?
There is also a valve at baileynet.com 220-334 that is a 3 position spring center open is that the valve I need instead of the tandem valve? It has same specs as far as voltage and GPM it says circuit type series.
I have not had a chance to study your links yet, but I did call a friend of mine and his tractor is set-up like you say and I am going to go by and try it out.
I was trying to pattern it after the WR Long valve kit but I wasn't aware there were other options as far as function
I have been real busy lately but I am going to study your links when I get a chance and will probably have more questions I am sure.
Thanks

John

 

[kennyd]

You want "tandem center", that keeps the work ports (the one that connect to the grapple) closed when the valve is not powered. The open center valve will leave the work ports open and the valve would not hold the grapple in position.

This is confusing because some companies like the Surplus Center will say "Open center, Work Ports blocked in Neutral" instead of using the tandem center name.

 

[Degolyerent]

Another member of this forum bought his WR Long valve for $571 but in my area of north Fl the dealers want to get rich on one transaction
I really didn't want to mention specific names but I also don't appreciate their hospitality.
I think they are being unreasonable in their pricing that is why I am trying to put it together without them being involved!!

 

[srs]

Another member of this forum bought his WR Long valve for $571 but in my area of north Fl the dealers want to get rich on one transaction

Degolyerent, can you get in touch with the "another member" and see where he/she bought their WR long valve and buy it from them instead of the dealers in your area? Can you do a Google search for WR Long dealers and see who has the best price?

 

[kennyd]

Another member of this forum bought his WR Long valve for $571 but in my area of north Fl the dealers want to get rich on one transaction
I really didn't want to mention specific names but I also don't appreciate their hospitality.
I think they are being unreasonable in their pricing that is why I am trying to put it together without them being involved!!

Well, just to be fair-the prices are and can be different for various tractors...There are also a few dealers on TBN that you can buy the valve kit from and they can drop-ship it to you, it can all be done over the phone with a credit card.

 

[srs]

There are also a few dealers on TBN that you can buy the valve kit from and they can drop-ship it to you, it can all be done over the phone with a credit card.

My point exactly Ken, no brainer to me.

 

[GuglioLS]

......SNIP.......SNIP.....
I still have to find a electrical switch set- up for the FEL handle does any one have any ideas they can run past me on that?......SNIP.....SNIP......
John

John,

I think it's great your building a grapple and desire to assemble all the hydraulic components yourself. Doing that is a huge savings and satisfying that you "DIY" ("Did it yourself") The apparent "inflated" price for "turn Key" hydraulic grapple setups accounts for the supplier doing all their research (homework) assembling all the right components, writing install manuals, re-packaging, painting, insurance, warehousing, inventory, taxes, payroll, building rent, employees, potential litigation and the likes. Add to that untold hours on the phone monitoring and replying to e-mail, blogs and forums etc. supporting and educating customers or "DIY'ers" asking endless questions, after all that with any luck they might make some meager profit. Enough of that....


Anyway I hope the following answers your joy stick and switch question:

When I built my grapple I got the joystick switch handle from Scorpion technologies. Below are all the links.

Home Page
S series handle
Handle specs
Mounting options
Parts List

It's an outfit in Canada with a toll free US phone number. They are easy to deal with. Three and a half years or so ago the complete setup (handle with switches and cable) was ~ $150.00 more or less.
Tell them you were referred by someone at TBN and ask for a discount. Don't know if you'll get a discount but what they hey, it's worth a try right?

Larry G

 

[Degolyerent]

I have already been in touch with "another member" twice and he happens to have a MX 5100 which has the same hydraulic system as mine.
I was exploring my options then and I still am as I am not in a huge hurry and doing it myself is a learning and rewarding experience.
Believe me I am well versed in buying on the Internet and having things dropped shipped!
I really do appreciate the information that knowledgable people in hydraulics have to share.
I am a certified Contractor in Fl and when people ask me building questions I try to help them if I can
Of course building in Fl is in sad shape right now and it would be nice to save some money or get a nicer set up for less,
Thanks for your responses
John

 

[Degolyerent]

John,

I think it's great your building a grapple and desire to assemble all the hydraulic components yourself. Doing that is a huge savings and satisfying that you "DIY" ("Did it yourself") The apparent "inflated" price for "turn Key" hydraulic grapple setups accounts for the supplier doing all their research (homework) assembling all the right components, writing install manuals, re-packaging, painting, insurance, warehousing, inventory, taxes, payroll, building rent, employees, potential litigation and the likes. Add to that untold hours on the phone monitoring and replying to e-mail, blogs and forums etc. supporting and educating customers or "DIY'ers" asking endless questions, after all that with any luck they might make some meager profit. Enough of that....

Anyway I hope the following answers your joy stick and switch question:

When I built my grapple I got the joystick switch handle from Scorpion technologies. Below are all the links.

Home Page
S series handle
Handle specs
Mounting options
Parts List

It's an outfit in Canada with a toll free US phone number. They are easy to deal with. Three and a half years or so ago the complete setup (handle with switches and cable) was ~ $150.00 more or less.
Tell them you were referred by someone at TBN and ask for a discount. Don't know if you'll get a discount but what they hey, it's worth a try right?

Larry G

Larry
Thanks for the info on the handle,looks good!