When 400 hp isn't enough.

[JDgreen227]

It looked to me is all the truck needed was a little help. I'm always amazed/frustrated on how much snow i can wade and not get stuck. Than the next time I'm stuck on a turd.

What interests me about this:

Compare the amount of reduced friction the horses have in the snow versus the amount of reduced friction the truck also has. On bare ground, the horses would have more friction to apply their pulling force, but the truck would also create more friction.

Would the team be able to move the weight of the truck more easily on bare ground or not?

To those of you who will say the truck wouldn't be stuck at all if the ground was bare....I already thought of that.

 

[SPYDERLK]

What interests me about this:

Compare the amount of reduced friction the horses have in the snow versus the amount of reduced friction the truck also has. On bare ground, the horses would have more friction to apply their pulling force, but the truck would also create more friction.

Would the team be able to move the weight of the truck more easily on bare ground or not?

To those of you who will say the truck wouldn't be stuck at all if the ground was bare....I already thought of that.

Horses essentially walk on spikes. In pulling, most weight is on the rears. For those horses its 4000# per sq foot .. and even more concentrated by the shoe. Probably around 40,000# per sq ft till the shoe fully penetrates. That tends to dig in ... like chains ... and that doesnt count cleats that may be used on shoes in ice country.
larry

 

[slowzuki]

Ice cork shoes are why old tractors had corked ring chains that tear paved roads to pieces. Horses have the ability to give a jerk too that is tough to do in a tractor without going over board and tearing the chain in two.

The problem with the horses is they can't keep up that same pull all day like a tractor. Of course a tractor can't build another small tractor inside of it.

 

[SandburRanch]

I like Ole Red. The one on the left. He's my kinda horse. That rat didn't spook him one bit because he has seen a lot of those in his day. Now those other three are a different story. They are kind of goofy and nervous. They may be colts in training and Mr. Farmer has Ole Red teamed with them for a reason. And if you watch closely Ole Red is smart too. He let those colts do most of the pulling.:laughing:

 

[Reg]

Horses essentially walk on spikes. In pulling, most weight is on the rears. For those horses its 4000# per sq foot .. and even more concentrated by the shoe. Probably around 40,000# per sq ft till the shoe fully penetrates. That tends to dig in ... like chains ... and that doesnt count cleats that may be used on shoes in ice country.
larry

I agree, they have BITE, even though their hooves are bigger than my dinner plate (-:

I had a thought about the weight of a horse being leaned forwards on it's legs and in my mind I was comparing that to how LITTLE force a 200 lb person exerts against a gutter when on a ladder at a similar angle.
I found the thread on when trees were BIG at just about that time, which confirmed that horses can too pull with great FORCE, though perhaps not FAST and for only a limited distance before needing rest.

I am going to have to draw this out, but at an intuitive level it doesn't seem that horses should be able to pull very hard JUST by leaning forwards, even with their legs at 45 degrees to the ground (& they never are).
Just extending strong muscles should make them go UP as well as forwards, so some of the power goes into lifting them vertically.
It doesn't seem reasonable that a 1 ton mass (animal or object) could do that.
Is it their high center of gravity that gets levered down close to the ground ?
Hmmm, but the hitch is up at about belly height...

 

[Egon]

I am going to have to draw this out, but at an intuitive level it doesn't seem that horses should be able to pull very hard JUST by leaning forwards, even with their legs at 45 degrees to the ground (& they never are).
]/QUOTE]

They sorta hunker down and then straighten up when starting a real heavy load. Takes a little to get a team properly trained for real pulling.:thumbsup:

 

[kjung17]

I like Ole Red. The one on the left. He's my kinda horse. That rat didn't spook him one bit because he has seen a lot of those in his day. Now those other three are a different story. They are kind of goofy and nervous. They may be colts in training and Mr. Farmer has Ole Red teamed with them for a reason. And if you watch closely Ole Red is smart too. He let those colts do most of the pulling.:laughing:

He's my favorite, too. What a monster. He's nearly 2 hands taller than the others. The dapple next to him nearly came unglued when that rat ran across.:laughing:

 

[slowzuki]

When a horse throws his weight into the hitch collar full tilt, and the hitch is a good one, from their chest down to near the ground some several feet behind them, there are only a few things going on, I wish I could draw on this thing.

-The front legs are out of the equation almost, they are just balancing, little to no weight on them.
-The rear legs are extending with the opposing forces being the horses weight down and the collar backwards.

I drew a little picture but it is terrible. The horse isn't leaning a little like your ladder, they just pick up their front feet so their ladder jumps from a slight lean to a barely 30 degrees above the ground lean. Its would be like putting your ladder only 3 fee up on the wall then trying to walk along it.

I am going to have to draw this out, but at an intuitive level it doesn't seem that horses should be able to pull very hard JUST by leaning forwards, even with their legs at 45 degrees to the ground (& they never are).
Just extending strong muscles should make them go UP as well as forwards, so some of the power goes into lifting them vertically.
It doesn't seem reasonable that a 1 ton mass (animal or object) could do that.
Is it their high center of gravity that gets levered down close to the ground ?
Hmmm, but the hitch is up at about belly height...

 

[Reg]

Yeah, I think I got it (-:
Unlike the guy on the ladder - that is still almost upright - the horse could just about curl his front legs up and scratch his chest.
It is his weight 4 or 5 ft ahead of his hind hooves that is coming down.
You could figure it from where his c of g is, 60% of their weight is on the front when they stand - that head weighs more than most men and it hangs way out forwards.
On a different scale; we did that at camp - tug 'o war - almost laying flat to pull the other guys into the mud (-:

It is kinda/sorta/almost like the final stage of an over center latch.

I've seen 'em pull stone boats - YES, it is impressive.

I've also seen a Suffolk Punch being tacked up for it's new owner's first driving lesson.
Nobody seemed to know that he had "Pulled" in a previous life, he was "just so huge and cuddly and looked like he needed a carriage, coz he's too wide to ride" (paraphrased).
It quickly became apparent when he heard something hook up right behind him.
They don't actually WAIT for the verbal command (-:

This is your NEW career fella, just STAND until told to walk on.

 

[SPYDERLK]

When a horse throws his weight into the hitch collar full tilt, and the hitch is a good one, from their chest down to near the ground some several feet behind them, there are only a few things going on, I wish I could draw on this thing.

-The front legs are out of the equation almost, they are just balancing, little to no weight on them.
-The rear legs are extending with the opposing forces being the horses weight down and the collar backwards.

I drew a little picture but it is terrible. The horse isn't leaning a little like your ladder, they just pick up their front feet so their ladder jumps from a slight lean to a barely 30 degrees above the ground lean. Its would be like putting your ladder only 3 fee up on the wall then trying to walk along it.

You got it. The front quarters of a horse is heavy and way forward. Just picking up the fronts and locking the rears exerts a lot of force. And a horse really pulling for all its worth will lower itself reducing backtip torque so they can use the full capability of their muscles. This was a trademark pull conformation of Justin Morgan, the originating Morgan Sire, who was able to pull much more in proportion to his weight than other horses.
Breeds of Livestock - Morgan Horse
larry