Rainwater washing out my NEW road

[grsthegreat]

I'm not sure how it runs in your state, but here in Idaho and also in Calif, all contractors have to have a bond in order to work. If the work is sub-standard and hes not returning your phone calls, contact the contractors bonding agents (on record with state contractors bureau) and place a lien against his bond. this effectively places him OUT OF BUSINESS.

i have had to resort to this a few times, and its free, its immediate, and it produces results. its amazing how fast they call me back after i shut them down.

mind you, its a last ditch effort. i CANT STAND fraudulent contractors. I pride myself with completing a job and following up if theres an issue. Small claims works also, but takes longer, and its anyones guess if youll ever see your money. Ive won 2 cases, and still havnt seen the money.


http://www.dpor.virginia.gov/dporweb/con_main.cfm

 

[boggen]

post pictures of the driveway, and read other threads here on TBN about road way / driveway construction.

When I inquired about this he said that we had to wait for some rains to see where they would be needed.

sounds odd to me at first glance, but if you 2 were working out some sort of deal at a lower cost. perhaps i could see this, or it went to a point were contractor got in over his head and wanted a way out. i could also see something happening if contractor was newbie to putting in longer driveways and dealing with ditches.

as far as washouts, compacted rock or not. water in good amounts will strip the gravel away quickly.

as far as mushy areas. yes ditches do help, but as the final snow melts for the year. that is when rock style driveways become the worse. and can quickly become a muddy mess. ((snow melts slower, and allows more water to soak into the ground vs letting the water run off to lower areas))

 

[tony Cecil]

As you are going to need a scraper blade, just get one, and cock one side up, other down, rotate it the furtherest notch, and just do it....The learning curve is quick, and you need to learn anyway.....Get a long enough blade so it just cuts where the outside of the back tire is, when the blade is rotated....Not very expensive, and just believe in yourself...Tony

 

[Boeing]

I'll try to attach some photos of this troublesome road. The DEVELOPER (seller) is the one who did the contracting with another road contractor. I never had any dealings with nor even met the actual contractor. There was an escrow held by an attorney but when the work was done the seller/developer sent me photos of "my new road" and asked for me to allow the release of the funds to pay the road contractor. I truasted the seller and said OK. The SELLER (developer) was the one who said that culverts and broad-based dips would be added after some rains showed where they were needed. A paragraph about this "all weather road" and it's culverts and broad based dips is in the purchase contract but it does NOT address if these items would be done DURING road construction or at sometime AFTER the road is constructed. I EXPECTED that the seller would have the contractor come back at a later date and review/rework the trouble spots.....but now he won't return my calls or E-mails and there is no more excrowed money.
I really appreciate all the input...this might get real ugly and expensive.

 

[tree farmer]

Wow, what an example of how not to build a road. Looks like a cut and fill operation with a dozer. (Cut and push the high spots into the low spots,sprinkle a little gravel on it and call it an all weather road):ashamed: Also looks like little or no base under that crushed rock. Whenever fill is placed, it should be placed and compacted in lifts ( layers) of about 4 inches at a time, then 4 inch or larger base rock should be "walked" in with a track machine or roller. This, of course, has to be done while the soil is somewhat drier than it is now. Even though you're across the country from me, the soil and topography looks very similar. My opinion at this point would be to basically start over with the grading when the ground dries out. As mentioned before, ditches are mandatory wherever water is present beside the road. I can't stress enough that the driving surface of even a private driveway should be at least 18-20 feet wide. This allows you to drive all across the surface to eliminate wheel ruts and the problems they cause. When it dries out, I would use your box blade to scrape and stockpile as much gravel as you can and reshape and compact the roadbed, complete with ditches, then put around 6-10" of base rock down and compact that. Then respread your gravel over that and drive carefully on it for a year or so. Yeah, it's gonna be costly, but it should be fairly easy to maintain. Hope you get some resolution from your developer soon.....Dan.

 

[CurlyDave]

tree farmer is exactly right.

That gravel you have is so thin it is clearly not going to hold up for any length of time.

The most important tool you have right now is the telephone. Use it to find a good local attorney and before it is too late file an action against the developer/seller.

Take lots of pics and keep them.

If you go this route, ask your lawyer about keeping this thread going. I know when I had a deck problem with my home, and had to sue the installer, one of the questions I was asked by the opposing attorney was "do you have a web log about this issue?" If the answer had been yes, they would have looked at it for all kinds of information and any false step I had taken would have been magnified beyond recognition.

That much road is going to be expensive to fix properly. Depending on how steep the slopes etc, several hundred thousand dollars is not out of the realm of possibility.

Fortunately you have a contract that says "all weather road". No matter how that is defined, no one is going to look at your pictures and say you have received what was promised.

Your tractor is not enough machine to fix this problem unless you have a year or so to invest, and even then you will be buying gravel, culverts, etc. And don't forget base rock, lots and lots of base rock.

I have about 1200 feet of properly-done gravel road in OR, and my TLB is not nearly enough machine to install that. I can maintain it, but you are looking at a lot more than just maintenance.

 

[boggen]

ouch!, that looks like a trail road, used for ATV's, riders on horses and like.

it hard to tell from pictures, but it looks like upper side of road, plus road, all slope to the lower side. and water just washing everything right off the top of the road.

 

[mjncad]

Boeing:

That turd screwed you as you already know, which sucks. The sad part is that lawyers will probably get involved, making matters worse.

As others have said, you need a good compacted rough cut road followed by road base suitable for your area followed by angular gravel and fines to lock the gravel in place. Of course that needs to be compacted too.

Whether to crown or just high side one side of the road or a mix of both is probably terrain independent. However; ditches and culverts are needed, and if the ditch has a lot of downhill slope, you might want to consider adding strategically placed hay bales to slow the running water down, otherwise your ditch could get wider than you want washing out part of your road edge.

Another person suggested a 18' - 20' wide road too. That is good advice, and your local fire department will appreciate being able to get their equipment up there if need be.

It really sucks that your dream is off to a nightmarish start. I hope you can figuratively cut the nuts off the developer and/or contractor to make it right.

 

[dcyrilc]

tree farmer and CurlyDave are absolutely right about this. Ditches, culverts, and base rock are the most important parts of having a sound road.

Anywhere that the side does not slope down and away from the road needs a ditch. Anywhere that the ditch will pool and collect water into a pond because it can no longer flow downhill needs a culvert to route the water to a further downhill point. Base rock 4-10" thick needs to be placed on the entire roadway to support the gravel and create permanent rigidity for the road.

Getting the side slopes grassed is a great first step, but just as important, if not more so, is getting ditches and culverts installed.

In your third picture, the left (downhill) side of the road is burmed preventing water from leaving the road surface and the right (uphill) side of the of the road is a hill. The water in this area has no choice but to run down the road and wash it out. There should be a ditch on the uphill side and the downhill side should drop away from the road so that water can escape. The road itself shold slope approximately 1/4 - 1/2" per foot up from the edges to the center. This is what is called having a crown. If a road were 16 feet wide and the edges were level on a cross section then the center point should be 2-4" higher than the edges. Hopefully this helps to give you an idea what needs to be done to start getting the road into shape.

Some other advice is to look at how county are built as you drive around. Look at where they place their ditches and culverts. Building your road will not be much different.

As mjncad said, you got taken for a ride. Any dirt contractor worth 50 cents knows where ditches and culverts are needed just by looking at the terrain.

 

[SPYDERLK]

From your pics you have just dirt and surface gravel. Problem is water can wash the gravel off easy unless there are enuf fines to unify it by filling spaces between to lock it in place. Once the gravel washes you then have a channel concentrating flow to erode the dirt. I think it isnt as bad as it looks to you, but somebodys got to work on it and do the right things. The situation is from both poor initial prep compounded by no use to pack it and immediately deal with new road winter issues caused by the freeze thaw mobilized surface. Whoever works on it must do it soon. - Quickest and easiest; 1] Disturb the surface to mix the gravel with dirt to form a base, 2] Fill erosion paths with this mix and tamp it down firmly, 3] Look for small grading changes that can be made to spread out flow paths, 4] Compact the "base" - Tractor AGs followed by intelligently guided car and truck traffic will work well over time [this assumes at least 16' width as previously suggested :thumbsup:], 5] Spread new gravel thinly and work it in by natural use as in #4, 6] Continue to spread out any intense flow areas you observe during/after rains [repair erosion with base], 7] Once intense flow areas are eliminated lay on several inches of gravel, 8] Put a culvert in when youre sure you need it.

I hope your contractor can be made to step up, but it probably wont be finished when he leaves. To help establish a stable road you will need to use it and make fine adjustments based on observation over time.
larry