Rainwater washing out my NEW road

[Egon]

Well, now you know where culverts are required.:thumbsup:

A good man on a grader could do wonders for making ditches and shaping that road. The gravel is another story though.

 

[tommu56]

Looking at the pictures there isn't any ballast on your road.
You need some thing to support the smaller stone ballast of fabric the ther proper ditching crown and culverts.

The registered letter / then lawyer thing is going to be the only cure in my opinion.

In the meantime work on finding a good contractor to give you an estimate to fix the road.
This way you have an idea of how hard you need to push the developer he is just trying to get away cheep!

 

[varmint]

Too bad that some contractors are just out for a quick buck, and don't give a hoot about the mess they leave behind. You've gotten what seems to me to be good advice. Our lane runs straight uphill for about 750'. It's been there for about 60-70 years, at least, and lord knows how many loads of gravel have been left on it. The base seems to have some big rocks, but I don't know if they were there to start with or got put down. I would have paved it when we moved here 12 years ago, but the lane is actually on someone else's property, and they didn't want me to pave it (taxes?) so I didn't. After 7 or 8 years of constantly fussing over it after storms, I had a smarter guy than me install more base, 4 dirverter humps to send cascading water off to the side, and several inches of ground up asphalt, which then got rolled. I didn't have the money for getting good side ditches cut, and since it isn't my property, I didn't want to cause trouble. It has held up well, and about the only maintenaince has been keeping the small side ditches clear of sticks, leaves and washed out gravel. The asphalt proved to be a great topping material, and it cost only a little more than crushed gravel. Just in case anyone wonders about my R/W, I do have one, but its full of telephone poles, trees and my neighbor's lawn. Better to stick with established old lane. My greatest hope is when my 93 year old neighbor at the end of the lane, past us, passes on, who ever buys his 40 acres will just pave the whole thing, and be rich enough to take care of it. Now, I do all the snow clearing and everything for all 1300 feet, back to my neighbor's house.

 

[ITHINKICAN]

I'd bet your land is real pretty during every season. I've lived East Coast, West Coast and this Coast. All are awesome but East Coast has the most memorable scenery. I kinda wish I had a road like that even it's current condition. It would be a great experience to work through the issues and enjoy it when it is a finished project.

I'm not an expert with roads or construction but chose to chime in anyway. If it were me I'd be careful on how to communicate with all parties. I'd try diplomacy first. If you threaten with lawyer too soon it might not have a good impact. If it is not a threat, meaning you truly intend to pay the $5,000 retainer and see it through to the end, timing won't matter as much. Plus Attorney's are costly... and you might win the case and end up with a judgement with no improvement to the driveway plus the cost of the Attorney... the only winner is the Attorney. If you have a co-worker or relative that can handle the case at a discount that's a different story. Personally I'd delay the threat, delay paying a retainer and only go there if it's the only option. Does that make sense?

In this area the Road and Bridge department employs a great guy who is real knowledgeable. He explains things real well and knows lots of people. If you can find someone who knows a lot about building roads or driveways you might find the cost of the Attorney vs the cost of getting the road fixed is similar in cost. I'd work it from both angles; make inquiries with people you know who are Attorneys and also do research on the time/cost of getting the driveway repaired. I hope your Contractor steps up and helps to work things out so you don't have to waste any additional money.

If you meet a Contractor out at your land - might want to borrow someone's dirty F150. I've always wondered if a Contractor sizes up people who show up with a set of golf clubs, in a pink golf shirt, wearing saddle golf shoes and driving a shiny white car... . j/k Not really. Actually I have a good friend who leaves his nice car at home on the days he makes sales calls and another friend drives his second car to work so nobody knows how rich he is - he owns the private Preschool - his car would stand out like a sore thumb .

Keep us informed. I'd like to see it when it is done and more pics of the land too if available.

Good luck!!

 

[varmint]

Talk about driving old cars, just because the image works! I know a guy who is very rich, and owns two Lexus's, a Porsche cabriolet, a Bently convertible (450+ hp and $140,000) several Mercedes-- you get the picture, yet he drives a pickup when he goes to his factory to check on things. No point in creating problems if you can avoid it.

 

[ITHINKICAN]

Rob, I came back to mention what might work in one situation might not work in another - it all depends on the circumstances...

While I was here I read the thread more thoroughly. I apologize for the inquiry. Can you explain the timeline and circumstances a little more clearly. You say you had a road cut in the forest. You say it was done by the developer. You refer to him as the seller. You say it was he/him that said it would be necessary to come back afterwards for some touch up work. You say you never met the contractor.

Did you buy land late last year and have an agreement with the seller to have a road being included/constructed - part of the sale - part of the purchase transaction? And then the seller came back either while he still owned it or just after you became the owner - he (the seller) acted as the developer - and then he had a contractor construct a road?

Is the seller/developer still nearby - or is he gone? Is the seller/developer building a structure/residence at the top of your road for you and your family - or was this a one time thing?

Can you be more detailed about how the events transpired. It might not change what most people have said - but it might net more input from people and thus get you closer to your goal. I had a few challenges with a recent project - the more input I received the easier it was for me to decide on my action - I assume at least one other person learned from my experience too...

 

[Boeing]

Thanks, I'll be glad to fill in more details.
The seller IS the developer. He bought approx 800 acres and divided it into 90 acres, (sold as hunting land), my 70 acres, 60 acres(still for sale) and 20 acres (just sold). He kept 202 for himself and stated that he and his wife were going to build on it "in the near future". His parcel is now for sale.
The 60, 70 and 20 shared an existing rugged dirt, gravel, rutted road when I first saw it Dec 2009. I placed a contract on it Jan 2010 with the requirement that a private, all weather road be constructed on and serving my land only. The seller and I each escrowed $5,000 to build this road. (he thought it would be cheaper) The seller/developer did nothing until August then brought in a road/dozer contractor to make this road. I had 4 months of school in Florida and was never there during the construction process. I DID ask (from seeing the old road) what to do about washouts, and was told that "AFTER some rains and washouts developed the location of culverts and broad based dips could be determined and created." I figured that this made sense and as the road was cut. Part of the escrow was requested to be released to pay the contractor for dozer work. After the gravel was hauled in photos were sent to me showing a pristine gravel road and the balance of the escrow was requested. I never thought that this was not the proper way to do business.
Now, months later (Sept to March) I get up there and you can see what I found.
BTW, the seller/developer DID e-mail me last week after my third attempt to contact him. He stated that he had not been to the property recently but would go out there to inspect and determine what is needed and what it might cost US...... He went on to say that mountain roads will require continuous maint. and not to expect a "good road" to remain good. What alarms me is that now HIS part of the remaining property is for sale and his comment of what it might cost US...
I'm attaching a section of the sales agreement. Parts of it are hard to read....it states that each side escrows $5000 and road costs are shared 50/50 with buyers share NOT to exceed $5000. The "all weather" part is what I'm questioning......it doesn't look to me that this road was EVER all weather. (but I'm not a road guy) and now with him selling out I might be on my own. These are the photos that he sent back in September.
Thanks for your help,
Rob

 

[ITHINKICAN]

I can't believe how beautiful that is... wow do I miss that type of scenery!! :thumbsup:

The challenge I see is this: If I go out and hire an expert road builder; check his website; call his references; inspect his work; check his license and bond; we discuss everything in detail; I know what to expect; I know his 'work'. We create a contract; we both sign it; I pay the 20 or 30% required to get started. Under this circumstance the Company is almost obligated to do what they have advertised and what they've shown me at their other job sites. If anything is not done correctly - they make the corrections. After completion in a workmanlike manner, as discussed and per the plans and specs I make a final payment. If he/they burn me at any point; I can blog against his website; let his references know; let his vendors know; tell 100 people; file a complaint against him and possibly effect his license; possible collect against his bond. I could hire a Lawyer and go to Court - probably win - maybe get it fixed or maybe get paid. BUT your deal is more like a private party situation in my opinion. He might just say "In my lay opinion - that is an all weather road, you got your culvert, the broad based dips must have washed away with that big rain storm we just had...". If you negotiated the sale price down from his original asking price - he might be 'balancing that negotiation out' with the inexpensive road work. It's also possible his Contractor took advantage of him. Or maybe his Contractor doesn't know how to build a road. This might not end well.

It's a tricky one. Personally, if it were me; I'd start looking for estimates to have the road built correctly. I'd speak to a minimum of three (3) experts. After I spoke to a few experts I'd contact the seller/developer. Describe for him what you learned from the experts - speak with authority - don't say 'I'm not a road guy' - talk like you know what you're saying. I'd speak diplomatically with him and maybe let him know you might be interested in buying the other land he is selling and you also have someone at work who is interested too. He might treat you like a buyer rather than someone who is all ready an owner. Let him know you'd like to have him and his contractor work on your road and do the culverts and the dips as discussed - you'd like what you agreed too in writing in the contract. Let him/them do as much as possible. Then hire someone to finish it correctly. Lawyers are expensive - a good one will ask for a $5,000 retainer (or more). If you win in Court - and he decides not to pay - a judgement is a piece of paper.

I hope it all works out!! Hope you get to enjoy it real soon!! :thumbsup:

 

[Egon]

Legal advice and a lien.

 

[boggen]

to put all that rock on, and not put in culverts. (water runs down hill, and collects in low spots)

i edited your pictures some. and half of the road (high side of road) does not look like any sort of ditches installed. and all water, runs directly down into the gravel, right were your tires would go as ya drove. a driveway is not meant to act as a drainage ditch for run off water.

they should of cut out some more trees on high side, so ditches could go in. then provided culverts in low spots on high side to low side of road.

to top it off, it looks like you have some major steep hill sides, on the high side of road. and i wonder if you will experience any major dirt slides into the road. (hence notation of more trees cut down to get a wider area) let alone once weeds start growing on the embankments, your mirrors will be getting nailed.

to me, it looks like they just came in, and did a rough cut of things. tossed some rock down. to make it look like a road.

(red in pics is bad attempt to follow grade in the pictures)
(green in pics, is a bad attempt to show ditches and placement of culverts)