Rainwater washing out my NEW road

[beppington]

Like others have stated, ditching is critical on the uphill side of your road and simply grading the road and spreading gravel isn't enough as you need a good base such as shale prior to the spreading of any gravel. We have 1/2 mile hilly drive and it is a constant battle to stay on top of it. In spite of the drive maintenance, we still enjoy living on top of our hill! Good luck. :thumbsup:

Wow, that looks expensive!

On the plus side it looks like maybe you're getting some rental income for what looks to be a cellular tower on your property?

 

[joeyd]

I had to put in a new easement road to my neighbors "extra" 10 acres since I used the old one as a driveway to my new pole barn. Here is what I got for $3K through approx. 600' of forested hillside. I only had to put in a rough road not a finished road as that is what I took over. But you can easily see the base rock which came from a small pit on my property so that kept the cost down.

You can see the culvert (black plastic) on the right side of the photo. I am actually going to have it pulled up and reset as the uphill side is not deep enough to collect the water flowing in the ditches.

 

[boomer1025]

Is a dirt road not an all wreather road ? That's what all the township roads were around here till they tarred & chipped them several years ago.
I'd find someone with a road grader, grade in some ditches & crown the road. At this point that would be the cheapest. For the banks & maybe the ditches, I'd plant wheat or oats & cheap grass seed mixed to get things started. That should help stop the erosion problem. Then when time and money allow, re-seed the banks with white clover, tar and chip the ditches and work at getting the rest of the road built to suit.

 

[Egon]

I'd find someone with a road grader, grade in some ditches & crown the road. At this point that would be the cheapest/QUOTE]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[dcyrilc]

Is a dirt road not an all wreather road ? That's what all the township roads were around here till they tarred & chipped them several years ago.
I'd find someone with a road grader, grade in some ditches & crown the road. At this point that would be the cheapest. For the banks & maybe the ditches, I'd plant wheat or oats & cheap grass seed mixed to get things started. That should help stop the erosion problem. Then when time and money allow, re-seed the banks with white clover, tar and chip the ditches and work at getting the rest of the road built to suit.

Boomer has the right idea here. It's amazing what a good grader operator can do in one or two passes. And definately plan on getting some good base rock down this summer if you want it to last.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Ideally the road would have been compacted, then geotextile put down, followed by compacted road base and finally compacted gravel mixed with fines. Alas, doing it right can get costly; but doing it wrong and fixing it can be even more pricey.

The problem with "all weather road" is the term is fairly vague, and what is all weather to one individual is a mud bog to another.

You might check your state's DOT web site to see if they have specs and drawings on how to construct a gravel road for your area.

I've worked on many gravel roads, either tailgating gravel, or working with the grader operators, and I have never seen a single gravel road built as described above. The state might do a base like that for a new asphalt road, but gravel roads are pretty much built as the OP has shown, except with better ditches and culverts to manage the water, and a little more gravel. If I paid $5k for a mile long road in the mountains, and got a road that good, I would be happy. Now you know where the water problems are, and you can address them. I live next to a 3/4 mile long county gravel road, it borders my property. During heavy rains it ruts out pretty good, and it gets ditched and graded several times a year. Gravel roads take maintenance, and more so if there are hills involved.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I've worked on many gravel roads, either tailgating gravel, or working with the grader operators, and I have never seen a single gravel road built as described above. The state might do a base like that for a new asphalt road, but gravel roads are pretty much built as the OP has shown, except with better ditches and culverts to manage the water, and a little more gravel. If I paid $5k for a mile long road in the mountains, and got a road that good, I would be happy. Now you know where the water problems are, and you can address them. I live next to a 3/4 mile long county gravel road, it borders my property. During heavy rains it ruts out pretty good, and it gets ditched and graded several times a year. Gravel roads take maintenance, and more so if there are hills involved.

I agree with buckeyefarmer. The way that some of you have described how this guys road should be built would cost HUGE money. Is this how some of you have your roads done? If so, more power to you. In our area, there are no public let alone private roads constructed as has been described. I suppose that if one has the money then that is great and get it done in that manor. For those of us that do not have that kind of money, well me anyway, I will continue to grade my road every 3-4 months and be happy when I have the chance to do so.

 

[CurlyDave]

I agree with buckeyefarmer. The way that some of you have described how this guys road should be built would cost HUGE money. Is this how some of you have your roads done? ...

My driveway 900-1000' driveway was built with 6" to 24" of base rock depending on how much leveling was required with 6" of 3/4" minus on top of that. Vibratory compactor after. Some of the flatter sections had fabric. Most of it was too steep for fabric.

It was expensive, but it has held up very well.

 

[mjncad]

I've worked on many gravel roads, either tailgating gravel, or working with the grader operators, and I have never seen a single gravel road built as described above. The state might do a base like that for a new asphalt road, but gravel roads are pretty much built as the OP has shown, except with better ditches and culverts to manage the water, and a little more gravel. If I paid $5k for a mile long road in the mountains, and got a road that good, I would be happy. Now you know where the water problems are, and you can address them. I live next to a 3/4 mile long county gravel road, it borders my property. During heavy rains it ruts out pretty good, and it gets ditched and graded several times a year. Gravel roads take maintenance, and more so if there are hills involved.

I agree with buckeyefarmer. The way that some of you have described how this guys road should be built would cost HUGE money. Is this how some of you have your roads done? If so, more power to you. In our area, there are no public let alone private roads constructed as has been described. I suppose that if one has the money then that is great and get it done in that manor. For those of us that do not have that kind of money, well me anyway, I will continue to grade my road every 3-4 months and be happy when I have the chance to do so.

In a perfect world, which we all know doesn't exist. I just hope the OP can get something that is usable, even if it isn't perfect.

 

[rd_macgregor]

One issue that the OP will have to deal with, and which was a problem on my place, is that repeated traffic, especially when the soil is wet, will create depressions/channels in the road that can gather runoff and lead to washouts. Expect this to happen and be ready to correct it (eg recrown the lane). Adding gravel over a number of years can slowly build up the road base until this problem largely disappears, but without a very large front-end investment, you need to expect to do a fair amount of annual maintenance until you can get things stabilized.
Proper crowning, ditching and culverts will help a lot. Bare ground along the road needs to be vegetated to stabilize it. Also, having the brand new, totally uncompacted road surface exposed through the spring thaw is likely the worst-case scenario; with some modest upgrading (and use!), these issues with the road shouldn't be nearly so bad in the future.
BOB

 

[MtnViewRanch]

My driveway 900-1000' driveway was built with 6" to 24" of base rock depending on how much leveling was required with 6" of 3/4" minus on top of that. Vibratory compactor after. Some of the flatter sections had fabric. Most of it was too steep for fabric.

It was expensive, but it has held up very well.

Dave, glad that you were able to do this with your drive.:thumbsup::thumbsup: Curious though, would you have done it if your road was 4-5,000 feet long?

 

[Diamondpilot]

That appears to be a light dusting of gravel

$10K total for a new 3/4-mi long road thru the mountains doesn't sound like nearly enough money to me.

I agree. I have a 280' long drive that is 25' wide and fans out to 40' at the barn. It took over $2000 of gravel to get it set up in 2003. Every 3 years I had to have $800 or so of gravel brought in to keep it up to my standards. I gave up and had it paved last year. I will be money ahead in 15 years and not have to deal with gravel.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

One other thing is to check with your insurance company. I don't know them personally, friend of a friend thing, but have heard or 2 families getting claims denied.

One has a 3/4 mile paved drive and it was blocked in by snow. They had a chimney fire and the fire dept could not reach the home. The house ended up being a total loss. End of the day the claim was denied.

Second family had a drive like yours. On a routine property inspection the dropped his coverage because of the driveway's condition.

I got dropped 2 years ago. Got a letter in the mail stating I was being dropped because in a drive by inspection they noted a trampoline. My daughter got it from Santa Clause that Christmas. They gave me 30 days to find new insurance. Funny thing is they never asked me if I had a trampoline when I bought the policy.

Chris

 

[SPYDERLK]

Wow, what an example of how not to build a road. Looks like a cut and fill operation with a dozer. (Cut and push the high spots into the low spots,sprinkle a little gravel on it and call it an all weather road):ashamed: Also looks like little or no base under that crushed rock. Whenever fill is placed, it should be placed and compacted in lifts ( layers) of about 4 inches at a time, then 4 inch or larger base rock should be "walked" in with a track machine or roller. This, of course, has to be done while the soil is somewhat drier than it is now. Even though you're across the country from me, the soil and topography looks very similar. My opinion at this point would be to basically start over with the grading when the ground dries out. As mentioned before, ditches are mandatory wherever water is present beside the road. I can't stress enough that the driving surface of even a private driveway should be at least 18-20 feet wide. This allows you to drive all across the surface to eliminate wheel ruts and the problems they cause. Yeah, it's gonna be costly, but it should be fairly easy to maintain. Hope you get some resolution from your developer soon.....Dan.

One issue that the OP will have to deal with, and which was a problem on my place, is that repeated traffic, especially when the soil is wet, will create depressions/channels in the road that can gather runoff and lead to washouts. Expect this to happen and be ready to correct it (eg recrown the lane). Adding gravel over a number of years can slowly build up the road base until this problem largely disappears, but without a very large front-end investment, you need to expect to do a fair amount of annual maintenance until you can get things stabilized.
Proper crowning, ditching and culverts will help a lot. Bare ground along the road needs to be vegetated to stabilize it. Also, having the brand new, totally uncompacted road surface exposed through the spring thaw is likely the worst-case scenario; with some modest upgrading (and use!), these issues with the road shouldn't be nearly so bad in the future.
BOB

The stategy for this was brought up early in the thread and referred to later. I hate it when good info does not carry forward. [The unfortunate formula for Progress integrated over Time being Zero.]
larry

 

[Egon]

I gave up and had it paved last year. I will be money ahead in 15 years and not have to deal with gravel./QUOTE]

In 15 years that "Ahead Monies" will come in very handy to refurbish the Asphalt drive.:thumbsup:

 

[Boeing]

Jim, that road makes my EYES water....I can imagine what it cost. Did you have to foot all that bill? WOW. The ditches look great especially since you "lined" them with huge rocks. And the road looks like crush and run with small gravel OVER that. I had thought of the opposite....gravel with C&R on top. You guys are sure right I MUST have ditches or that road will be history. I'm waiting for the seller/developer now who said he would go out and "evaluate" it.
Thanks to everyone who has helped me with this and I hope it turns out OK, this is to be my "retirement" spot in 2 1/2 years and I'm having fun out there now.

 

[MarkV]

Really pretty place Boeing. It is hard to tell how steep your grade is and with 3/4 of a mile I know you can't show it all. My experience with mountain terrain in N. Georgia was that on the steeper grades crusher run was the best option for holding the road. Larger gravel would end up down hill. In my lower areas where it would get wet the advice for a heavier base gravel is what I did. That worked well. Ditches and maintenance are an absolute. You should look into a rear blade or box blade. You will need it. Water is going down hill and going to take the most direct route. It's a given. Your project is to put it where you want it.

Sure hope your developer comes through with more work. If it were me pushing him it would be for ditches and culverts. Gravel is going to be expensive but you are not going to get it all, only my guess.

Mind if I ask who you fly for? My wife has been with Delta for 29 years.

MarkV

 

[boggen]

the contract notes about culverts being put in. and broad base.

the seller already has noted he would come back and do that after the rains show the bad spots.

the contract noted 50/50 with a max of 5,000 max per party for a total of $10,000

=================
at this moment in time, it sounds like ya left it all up to the contractor. without doing your homework before hand. if ya want things done right. i would say grab a hold of the rings. and keep on everything and keep communication going between you and the seller.

if you are not able to easily look things over, request multi pictures and/or video.

get your own bids, and talk to local contractors, not just the one that originally did the work. open up the local phone book for area. ((not internet)) and look up "dirt", "excavation" and like. i say actual paper phone book, due to many times, ad's folks place, show up in paper phone book vs internet, that can give you some better info of who to call first. and then goto internet yellowpage websites. and search 100 or so miles further away. and contact some contractors. there will be slightly higher freight charges for shipping the equipment in, but perhaps lower overall bids.

also look into DIY the road, meaning buying machinery or implements or what not and see about doing it yourself. even if you do not do this. many times you can pickup very good info and those little tid bites of info that really help. i honestly do not like referring folks to local library books, but roads have been around for years. and a book might give you better pictures, and descriptions vs some internet web guide.

===================
get a game plan / list of what other things need to be done on property.

would a backhoe or excavator, work better than say getting another dozer in there, or running rear blades and box blades, or a road grader?

when just looking at pictures, myself it would be a backhoe. you have a rough cut road. with rock already down. i would be hesitant in pulling dirt on high side of drive to the lower side of drive. to put in culverts and ditches. but it also could come down to. try to re scrape the rock up. and taking loss on some gravel. i say larger size backhoe. so you can set almost in center of road way. and take buckets full of dirt from high side, and swing the backhoe to lower side of drive. and then come back with the FEL and push the dirt down the lower side hill.

it has been some time since i have seen them. but there is 3pt ditchers. that hook up to larger size tractors. that can send the dirt up into a truck. or shoot the dirt off to another side.

never used a pull behind scraper. (kinda like a box blade) but a lot more capacity to get dirt. might be a way to get your culverts in. without dragging dirt right across the current rock.

perhaps getting a 1 or 2 bottom plow, and hitting the ditch areas, and then running the FEL into the softer torn up dirt. and moving it to lower side. then cleaning things up with rear blade and box blade.

compare your little tractor to say a older TLB (tractor loader backhoe) or bigger sized older tractor if DIY, and get major work done. then come back with your little tractor and do touch ups and maintenance with.

everything can be done multi ways, what makes sense to you?

 

[MarkV]

Boggen the way I read it from the OP was, the buyer,him, was in for 5K and the developer was to provide an "all weather road". I think the question will become 'what is an all weather road'. There is even a good deal of disagreement in this discussion as to what that means.

MarkV

 

[Diamondpilot]

I gave up and had it paved last year. I will be money ahead in 15 years and not have to deal with gravel./QUOTE]

In 15 years that "Ahead Monies" will come in very handy to refurbish the Asphalt drive.:thumbsup:

Maybe but it will be a wash. Plus I do not have to deal with crappy dirty gravel anymore. Much easier for the kids to play on, mow around, and plow the snow in the winter.

Chris