Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help!

   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help! #1  

Sulla

Silver Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
111
Tractor
Kioti CK20
If all goes well, my wife and I will close on forty five acres of land in further North New Hampshire. This is a dream come true for us and we are excited to get going. The property is old farm land, hundred years or more, that was logged maybe twenty or thirty years back. About 20% is old growth, the rest is fast growing soft woods and smaller hard woods of various species.

The property is surround on all four sides by National Forest. Access is by one of two class VI roads. The better of the two is maintained but the Forest Service during the summer. Unfortunately using this road requires that we also travel down a road that is issued as a snowmobile trail in the winter and we don't want to do that. The property's namesake road is barely a road, this is the one we will use.

From the terminus of the town road to what is in effect our drive way (though technically it's still town owned) is about a mile. The grade is uphill ranging from 2% to 6% grade. The road is reasonably crowned, with the approximation of drainage ditches on both sides. There are four water brakes that are in serious need of attention.

The plan for the property is to build a fully independent farm. We will not have any town power or any town services.

We plan on solar, wind and maybe hydro for electricity. Wood and geothermal for heat. I also plan on purchasing a large industrial generator as backup.

The farm will largely be for our food needs. Beef, poultry, pork, dairy and produce will all be raised in small quantities for our use. (I have another job for money). Extra food will be sold locally.

We also plan on running a farm get away for kids. We will build a separate bunk house and allow kids to spend a week of two free of charge working on the farm.

My plan is to update this thread like a blog, assuming there is interest. I will also be seeking a lot of advice. Both my parents grew up on farms and I worked on my grandparents farms as well as others who were less forgiving. I know this is going to be a lot of work and that is what I am looking forward too,my wife not so much. My day job is investments and quite honesty it leaves me feeling less and less confident of the survival of our species everyday. I need the dirt on my hands to wash off the grime at the end of the day. For me this is therapy.

My excuses having been made, on to project one.

The road.

I figure the first thing to do is get the road sorted out. Drainage is an issue, so I figure on installing four culverts made of galvanized steal with concrete block reinforcement. The road is not heavily travelled but will need to support logging and construction equipment. I was planning on trenching out water breaks to about 4.5 feet laying in the 12 inch galvanized steal pipe. I was then going to stack concrete blocks along the sides to take some of the load then cover with gravel.

Do I need to use rebar?

What about covering the pipe with gravel? Do I need some sort of reinforcement for the top of the pipe?

Next I figure a good box blade pulled behind my Kioti DK45, up and down, taking care to leave the crown in place and the road should be serviceable.

Perhaps this is a fools earned. But the more I see of what has become of our society the more convinced I am we need to find another way. I am not implying that I have the answers, I don't. All I know is that with change comes disruption of the status quo. The ability to productively allocate capital for people is not likely to be worth much in a world where capital has no utility. I guess this is a complicated hedge against chaos. In any event thanks for any thoughts you might have.

Oh we hope to be in within five years.

Sulla,(aka David)
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help! #2  
as long as you have a foot of cover over the pipe you wont need and reinforcement for the culvert pipe.
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help!
  • Thread Starter
#3  
ricky williams said:
as long as you have a foot of cover over the pipe you wont need and reinforcement for the culvert pipe.

Thank you, that's what I thought but I wasn't sure.
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help! #4  
As far as your road goes, I highly recommend a box blade, a rear blade and a grader blade-land plane. All should be heavy duty. When I say heavy duty, I do not mean for you to go by whatever rating is on the implement, I mean real heavy duty. Box blade needs to be 1000lbs or more. A rear blade should be 800lbs or more and a grader blade should also be 1000lbs or more. With as much as you need to do and to maintain don't even bother with anything less.

I would recommend a box blade with hydraulic actuated rippers, a rear blade with at least 1 hydraulic for angling the blade. The grader blade will be indispensably for maintaining your road. Now all of these implements of top quality bought new will run you a lot of money, like about 8 grand or so. :eek: So you might want to keep an eye out for some used ones and maybe cut your costs in half. But you will be by far happier with this quality of implements, especially with what you need to do. And last but not least , some top and tilt hydraulics so that you can have full control of these implements at your finger tips.

Just my :2cents: given your circumstances. ;)
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help!
  • Thread Starter
#5  
MtnViewRanch said:
As far as your road goes, I highly recommend a box blade, a rear blade and a grader blade-land plane. All should be heavy duty. When I say heavy duty, I do not mean for you to go by whatever rating is on the implement, I mean real heavy duty. Box blade needs to be 1000lbs or more. A rear blade should be 800lbs or more and a grader blade should also be 1000lbs or more. With as much as you need to do and to maintain don't even bother with anything less.

I would recommend a box blade with hydraulic actuated rippers, a rear blade with at least 1 hydraulic for angling the blade. The grader blade will be indispensably for maintaining your road. Now all of these implements of top quality bought new will run you a lot of money, like about 8 grand or so. :eek: So you might want to keep an eye out for some used ones and maybe cut your costs in half. But you will be by far happier with this quality of implements, especially with what you need to do. And last but not least , some top and tilt hydraulics so that you can have full control of these implements at your finger tips.

Just my :2cents: given your circumstances. ;)

Thank you, that clears up some questions I had about this equipment. I had found a box blade and a grader blade for short money, they didn't seem substantial enough for what I need to do. Now I get it.
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help! #6  
From the terminus of the town road to what is in effect our drive way (though technically it's still town owned) is about a mile. The grade is uphill ranging from 2% to 6% grade. The road is reasonably crowned, with the approximation of drainage ditches on both sides. There are four water brakes that are in serious need of attention.

Right there is the biggest problem I see. I think what you are saying is that you have a mile of Town owned, but poorly maintained road, and your plan is to improve it.

Before you close on the property, make certain that the town will let you improve the road. Many times they will not allow you to do any work on your own on Town property, other times they will, but only if you post a large bond.

The reasons are many for this, and a lot has to do with liability.

What are you going to do if you discover that the Town will not allow you to make improvements in the road?
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help!
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Thank you CurlyDave, that's a good point. That noted the town has a total of three hundred residents and Town Hall is open from 5:00 to 7:00 on. Tuesdays. The Town has no zoning laws whatsoever and the road such as it is, from my neighbors house to Town " center" is maintained by a local farmer.

I'm not sure anyone will even notice or care, unless I try to developed it. A couple of years back the Forest service kept trying to gate the road it maintains. After the lock was cut three times they gave up locking it.

We did speak to the "Town" official and he confirmed no zoning and the the road is our problem. I think if I asked for it in writing I'd be run out of Town.

I think the best course of action is to simply do as I wish and wait for someone to cry foul. Considering our goal is a single family farm, I hoping we'll fit right in.

I will make a few more inquires.
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help! #8  
What are the winters like up your way. A mile worth of snow removal is a big job and one that I would be considering when buying equipment. Good luck with your adventure.

MarkV
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help! #9  
Good luck on your farm.

You could make good use of a medium-sized truck (2-5 ton) for hauling animals, feed, supplies, pulling a livestock trailer, etc. There are used single axle dumps that aren't all that expensive. I would look for a truck that can be used as a snow plow in winter, you don't want to do a mile long stretch on a tractor.

The best way to lower your road building and maintenance expense is to find a nearby source of stone and be able to load it and/or haul it yourself. Trucks gobble fuel, so the closer the better.

It would be great if you can find a gravel bank on your land, or a neighbor who has one and will sell stone to you. It is too high a reach for many compact tractors to load over the side of a dump truck, so there is that to consider in your tractor size choice.

I agree with CurlyDave, you need to have a real good handle on the status of the road. More talking with neighbors is a good place to start. Is it really a town road, or used to be years ago when there were more people around? There are 'paper roads' in Maine that legally exist, but there is currently no real 'road'. They are used by ATV's and snowmobiles, or seasonal 4-wheel drives, but not maintained by the town. The towns don't have the funds to upgrade or maintain these 'roads' which is probably why you got the answer you did from the town official - it's a road but you are on your own. Maybe they have selectmen's meetings you could attend and get to know them and ask questions.

Sounds like a great adventure. From what I have seen and experienced gardening in western Maine, unheated grow tunnels and hoop houses are going to be your best bet for table veggies; they extend the growing season to something you can work with.

We live in a passive solar heated house, if you are thinking about that direction and want feedback, PM me. It's working well for us. For your plans, I could see a passive solar home and greenhouse augmented by a wood-fired boiler to provide in-floor radiant heat. A decent size boiler would also heat a workshop and take the chill off your hen house. Keeps the money sucking oil trucks away :)

Have fun, Dave.
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help! #10  
From what I have seen and experienced gardening in western Maine, unheated grow tunnels and hoop houses are going to be your best bet for table veggies; they extend the growing season to something you can work with.
.

If you haven't already, become familiar with the work Elliot Coleman is doing in Maine.
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help! #12  
You are still going to have to buy diesel and a lot of it. You could make biofuel but you have to buy stuff to make that. It is really hard to become totally self sufficient today. Horses maybe and I am not sure about that.
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help! #13  
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/stewardship/accessroads/accessroads.htm

good book on forest roads i really like this manual.
I was also going to recommend the four season farm, the book of his, the winter harvest handbook, is wonderfun. I would also recommend the book "root cellaring".
if your not on otherpower.com they have great forum on different types of powergeneration.
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help!
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Wow! Great stuff. Thanks one and all.

The road is real, we drove up it about a half mile before my wife's (tougher than you'd think) Mercedes 450 SUV couldn't go any further. The road is still covered with snow and ice as is most of the land. The property is twenty four kilometers, as the crow flies, North of us on the leeward side of a modest, 3000'+ mountain range, so yeah it gets dumped on, I love snow.

I have a Dodge One Ton Dually that I had planned on plowing with. If that won't cut it I figure a used municipal dump truck with plow can get the job done. If that doesn't work a snow cat might be the only answer.

I am trying to switch all of my vehicles over to diesel. I believe we will see our supply of fuel challenged in the near future. I plan on producing bio diesel in fairly large quantities, lord knows there are plenty of fast food restaurants looking to get ride of their oil. I also understand it can be made with other organics as well, we'll see.

We have no problem buying and using commercial products, you should see some of the stupid stuff we've bought. My wife and I just believe that we have lost the connection to what it takes to live the life we do. From the soldiers that fight on our behalf in wars that protect not only our freedom but our cheap gas, to animals that are diseased from being injected with everything from steroids to antibiotics, to the poor around the world who are starving so our Federal Reserve can print money to bail us out of the debt problem we created.

America is better than this! We don't really know how to change any of it. So we figure we'll just try to change the way we live and maybe our children might grow up in a different world.

Make no mistake we like stuff, I'm typing this on my iPad. I just want to be conscious of the cost of what we do and have. But if I can buy diesel, you can be sure I'll be buying it. It's really just a change from how much does that cost? To, do I really need that and can I make it myself?

Thanks for the feedback. I couldn't even consider something like this without the accumulated knowledge of the folks on TBN.

Pics coming soon.
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help! #15  
We did speak to the "Town" official and he confirmed no zoning and the the road is our problem. I think if I asked for it in writing I'd be run out of Town.

Being a "Town Official" myself I'd recommend that rather than ask for it in writing, you make a note in some journal or date book who you talked to, when, and what he said. You'll likely never need it, but it may be convenient to have someday. I deal a lot with the leftovers of someone's handshake deal after a meal with the mayor's nephew or similar unofficial permission granting. Some permissions were granted flat out illegally. Having some record will help demonstrate you did your due dilligence if and when the current official is replaced.

I'm excited to see this project develop. I have totally different reasons than yours, but I'm fascinated by off-grid, self reliant living.
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help! #16  
We all love a good project :D

Do you know the history of your land? Is it in production now or was it ever farm or pasture?

When I look at the stone walls criss-crossing my land and think of all the work those poor people did, it makes my back hurt. And as soon as more fertile farm lands opened up in the Ohio River valley areas, they deserted these rocky poor soils and longer winters - I don't think they missed it :laughing:

Have you read any of Joel Salatin's works? Polyface, Inc. I think his concept of 'grass farming' has a lot to offer in areas where row crops just aren't possible. If you can get a good cycle of grazing-manuring-fallow going, it has to be one of the most economical methods of production on poor soils - if that is what you are starting with.

Dave.
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help!
  • Thread Starter
#17  
Received the green light from the town selectman to bring the road up to spec,if I want to go that far. He told me if we did the town would take over maintaining it. I don't know if we'll go that far but it's nice to know they are supportive.

Closing is on Thursday, pictures to follow as soon as the rain let's up.
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help!
  • Thread Starter
#18  
Threads are better with pictures.

Here are a few of the pictures I took of the road I am about to start work on. The truck is a 4x4 with a 6' lift kit on it. I include it for reference.

In general the road is both worse and better than I remembered. Very muddy in some spots and pretty rough in others. Ditches are okay and water breaks are in decent places.

Any ideas as to how I can avoid 2000 yards of gravel?
 

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   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help! #19  
...Any ideas as to how I can avoid 2000 yards of gravel?

2000 yards of asphalt?

Don't drive on it when it's wet?

Other than that, you'd best just plan on a lot of gravel.
 
   / Big Multi Year Project About to Begin...help! #20  
Any ideas as to how I can avoid 2000 yards of gravel?

I've never made a road or even graded, but this seems logical to me - Maybe somebody can correct if it's wrong:

I'd start with a rear blade, or grading scraper, tilted at a 4-degree angle & drag it along the sides of the road to 1) create a ditch along the sides of the road, rather than letting the tire tracks themselves be the ditches, which is what it looks like you have now, & 2) drag that material onto the road itself to raise the area where you'll drive.

It may not stay once you do that, but also it might! And it's a fairly inexpensive thing to try without having buy gravel. And it would probably need to be done anyway, since roads/ driveways need ditches along side them, i.e. you want your road/ driveway to be higher than the immediately surrounding terrain ... certainly not lower than it.

If you do this & it quickly washes back to the way it is now, you'll probably need to add culverts, gravel & other stuff that's beyond my knowledge :eek:
 

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