Flail soil destruction device

Dataway · May 6, 2011

I would cover the whole thing with a 1/8" thick sheet steel cover similar to a tiller so a chain coming off causing a problem would be unlikely ... I'd attach the chains with half links welded to the drum anyway, so chains coming off would probably not be a big problem.

Rocks are rocks and dirt is dirt ... unfortunately things are not that simple here. Looking at the area I keep landscaped (about 3 acres) it looks like nice lawn from a distance. However, up close you can see the rocks showing here and there. Problem is that rock could be the size of a fist, or the size of a small car. Plowing is not an option, the plow would hang on a rock every 10 feet.

The Harley rake looks very similar to what I need.... but with chains that would allow it to contact immovable objects without destroying itself. I'm not looking for something that would have the power to pulverize all things in it's path... but something that will dig up, destroy the "soft" material and reveal what needs more attention to remove.

Bringing in top soil would be great, but covering a few acres with top soil would get pretty expensive. I guess the best description is a device that will strip the top 2" of soft material and leave it lying, then I can walk the area and see what needs the backhoe or some other means to remove.

Modifying a flail mower would probably be my best bet if I didn't build from scratch. I had the idea of using simple hardened chain because it would probably last forever, and be inexepensive to replace if it didn't. Although it won't dig or cut as well as hammers or knives...but hammers and knives won't fare well against the large rocks.

I routinely fabricate fairly large items, so the building wouldn't be an issue. The design and parts availability would be an issue. Gearbox, drive shafts, etc. I think I need at least about 5,000 fpm at the end of the chains, which mean over-driving the PTO about 250-300%. I'd only want to do a few hundred square yards at a time, plowing up or cultivating 3 acres at one time would require more of a time commitment in a short span that I would care to take on.

Now I'm picturing a Harley rake.... with chains instead of spikes.... mounted so that the chains engage the ground about 1" in depth, so a couple of passes would be required. If past experience is any guide, I'd spend most of my time getting the driveline and 3pt geometery right, the rest should be pretty straightforward.
JohnnyB

PS. Anyone know of a good source for right angle gearboxes? Some place where I can peruse the designs and order complete boxes?

PSS. Seems like most gearboxes are speed reduction ... I need speed increasing ... or should I go with 1:1 and over drive at the chain or belt?
Thanks

smiley · May 6, 2011

Old manure spreaders and some other farm machinery usually have angle drives and they're heavy duty and I believe 1:1 ratio. I just gave the neighbor one back that he gave me 3-4 years ago, it also had a built in shifter to engage/disengage.

You might also look at flail mulchers for ideas, this one is from Construction Industry Product Information | Construction Equipment. They aren't intended for tilling but do quite a job of it if run to close to the ground.

If you get this rig going maybe you can hire out to the govt for small mine clearing jobs as in second photo.

Check this one out too. It's listed as a flail mower/tiller. http://www.ironsearch.com/Farm-Tractors/SmartSort-Equipment/BCS/Tiller-Walk(d)Behind/1474121.aspx

smiley · May 6, 2011

Dataway,
You got my curiosity up and here's one I never imagined existed. I've crushed a lot of rocks in the gravel pit but never knew a 3pt rock crusher/soil conditioner even existed. It says it does up to 8" rocks.
I'd hate to see the price of it.
http://www.seppi.com/en/mulchers-mowers/stone-crushers-tillers/midipierre.html

Dataway · May 7, 2011

Smiley,
Yep...that's the idea, except I can live without one that will eat rocks and stumps. In my searches I came across a company .... I think their biggest unit handles rocks up to 12" and stumps to like 18". Something like 300hp required and it's weighs like 12,000 lbs. I couldn't believe it was possible to make such a thing ...but they have a video of it in operation.

I see you are from upstate NY. So am I, in the Saratoga area, close to the Adirondack state park, I'm up about 1600 feet... so you know the terrain up here. Hard to believe any machine would handle "mulching" 12" diameter quartz granite basketballs we have up here

I mean these are the rocks that the glaciers couldn't mulch, there's not a "soft" rock anywhere on my property.

I found this place Surplus Center - Hydraulics, Engines, Electrical and More doing a TBN search. Looks like a good source for gearboxes.... guess I could over-drive the unit at the side chain/belt drive rather than at the gear box. Slippage shouldn't be a big issue unless I got it tangled up in too much brush or vines.
JohnnyB

PGBiodiesel · May 7, 2011

A heavy duty flail mower is just what you need.
They have hammers designed to handle rocks.
They might not pulverize them to dust but the mower won't break.
The hardened chains and flails are replaceble if needed.

If making your own:
Why do you think such high tip speed is needed?
1100rpm is 36 blows per second with your design.
If high tip speed is really needed, just increase the diameter of the tip.

If you welded a large half link on, then used a shacke to attach the length of hardened chain, and used say 1 1/2 the length needed, you could feed out the chain as it wore down.

Working alot of granite will wear down even hardened steel.

Goodluck

smiley · May 7, 2011

Dataway,
I'm over Utica way but know your area well. Used to run to Speculator, Lake George and Montreal a lot after high school. Also worked construction in the Adirondacks a lot of years so know all about your granite boulders. I remember one that was to big to move so we blew it and one 6" chunk went through the mat and through a window about 100 ft away. Most of our rock over this way is limestone and shale but occasional granite boulders show up.

quicksandfarmer · May 7, 2011

What you need is a stone burying machine -- see this video:

YouTube - Perfect Earth Stone Burying in North Canterbury

The way it works is it picks up a load of dirt and puts it down so the biggest stuff is on the bottom and the fine stuff on top.

I've never actually seen one of these machines but I've dreamt of them. I have similar soil and I'll say that what you don't want to do is take the rocks out of the soil, you'll just make a bigger mess.

smiley · May 7, 2011

quicksandfarmer said:
What you need is a stone burying machine -- see this video:

YouTube - Perfect Earth Stone Burying in North Canterbury

The way it works is it picks up a load of dirt and puts it down so the biggest stuff is on the bottom and the fine stuff on top.

Here in the Adirondack region we have a machine that puts the biggest stuff on top and the finer stuff on the bottom. It's called winter.
A lot of our highway rehab work was what is called frostheaves. Where the freeze thaw cycles can push the stones right up and through the roadbed. We dig em out to below frostline, fill it with compacted gravel and hope there's no others nearby to do the same next year.