How far can LEO go?

[Soundguy]

I didn't know Florida did that, but that's not the case in Texas. In fact, here is what the Texas Department of Public Safety recommends.

i didn't know it either till one day I was stopped ( got a warning ).. for going over posted speed.. etc. LEO walked to my window and asked if I was carrying my concealed weapon.

As to how to notify a LEO who didn't ask, my police / nra instructor said to simply hand over your dr license and CWP at the same time and that will notify the LEO that you are carying.. etc..

soundguy

 

[Bird]

As to how to notify a LEO who didn't ask, my police / nra instructor said to simply hand over your dr license and CWP at the same time and that will notify the LEO that you are carying.. etc..

That certainly sounds like a logical recommendation to me.

 

[Soundguy]

Nobody is suggesting that you do. Not one time has that been suggested that I am aware of.

actually.. someone here in this thread -did- mention checkpoint searches. that's what I was responding to.

soundguy

 

[Bird]

Yes and in the end it is all about catching the fat goose, isn't it

I had no intentions of starting a thread that folks would down the LEO's
I think every LEO should have the Public support and respect, but I also think as a citizen they should look at all of us as a Posible criminal,

here is another web-site if anyone cares to lookup your city,
Huge List of Speed Traps | The National Speed Trap Exchange
These are reviews By citizens , Not by Police departments,
IMO if LEO does this then why not do what I have been asking about?

Incidentally, in 1969 I once had occasion to question a former Georgia Sheriff we caught in a motel room with a known murderer/burglar/hijacker. This was in the days when his salary was probably $20k a year and he'd just been voted out of office. He claimed that his speed trap had been making him about $30k a year. He had $5k in cash in his pocket that evening. He claimed it was from a poker game, but he had come to Texas with an arrest report (that he wrote, of course) to show that our killer was in his jail in Georgia on the night of the killing so he couldn't have been the killer. There was so much overwhelming evidence to the contrary that the killer was still convicted, and we would have loved to send that crooked sheriff to prison, but couldn't prove he was paid the $5k for perjury. We could prove the mink coat his wife was wearing came from a burglary in another state, but couldn't prove he and his wife knew that.

So, yes, we know there are real "speed traps" and we know there are some crooks in law enforcement. Unfortunately, some people think all officers are crooked. Actually the bad ones are relatively few, but one is one too many. Just off hand right now, I can recall 3 Dallas officers (2 patrolmen and a lieutenant) that we sent to prison during my career. One of the patrolman was a burglar who was in my recruit class (caught in the act one night), the other went for rape and attempted murder, and the lieutenant went for providing the pistol his girlfriend used to kill her husband. Incidentally, she was found not guilty of murder and went free, while our ex-lieutenant was serving hard time for providing the gun.:laughing:

 

[whateg0]

Holy crap! I can't wait 'til the day when the whole country starts using P25 or DMR or NXDN or other digital radios that the average Joe can't afford a scanner for. You, sir, have too much time on your hands. I have never ever ever been asked for papers showing that I own anything I have ever had in my possession when pulled over. Not the car seats for the kids, not the radio in the dash, not the bug deflector on the hood, not the trailer behind my truck, not the car on the trailer behind my truck, not the wheels on the car on the trailer behind my truck, not the tires on the wheels on the car on the trailer... Ok, I guess you get the idea. I for one would like to know if the car I was driving was reported stolen. And that is all they are doing when they "run your numbers". They are comparing it to the list of things reported stolen.

And if an officer pulls somebody over because he has a tractor on his trailer and there was a report of a tractor being stolen with R4 tires, but the tractor on the trailer didn't have R4 tires on it, WHO CARES? I don't even know what R4 tires look like, so how would the average officer know? He knows a tractor was reported stolen. And the citizen has a tractor that might match the description on his trailer.

And if a thief is traveling down the highway to go hawk the stolen tractor, or car, or whatever, the officer 2 states away from where it was stolen isn't going to intuitively know that there was a tractor stolen 2 states away and to be on the lookout for it. But if the tractor with serial number X was reported stolen and he pulls over a driver for speeding and looks at the tractor and finds the number X, which is confirmed by radio or computer to be reported stolen, then isn't that a good thing?

Geez! Somebody is a LITTLE bit paranoid! Better put on your tinfoil hat and stay indoors so they don't come get you!

Dave

 

[Mounted Madness]

Reasonable grounds...that's what a patrol officer needs to detain (stop) someone. It could be traffic violation or it could be something else.

Hmmmmmmm, lawyers have a hay day with this one, and on both sides of the border, the definition of reasonable grounds has been beaten to death.

Police can no longer 'profile', yet any cop with any realtime road experience and the occassional drink after hours, can readily identify a probable DUI when they drive by. Body language can scream as loud as a drunken fool, and it's usually the hard drinkers that appear sober with a level well above .08 that shout the loudest in their body language.

Where the problem exists is when a less then articulate officer is challenged in court and cannot legitimize his/her reasonable grounds. Experience counts, both in court and otherwise, but it can too frequently result in bad case law.

If an experienced patrol officer responds to a knife fight, arrives at the scene, then follows a trail based on (in his experience) the blood spatter pattern from the scene and apprehends a suspect; then can articulate that in court; then his/her 'reasonable grounds' to arrest should survive a court challenge.

This thread started with an observation by the uninformed and unexperienced - no offence meant or intended. These are similar to conclusions too frequently held by the media when reporting on an incident.

Life is a lot simpler then any conspiracy theory someone might have. Your average cop wants to get home every night, have a decent life, retire with a pension and live twice as long as his pension contribution period. As alluded to a few times across this thread - there are J's and I's in police departments, but the majority are committed, fair and individuals you'd like to have a beer with.

Very seldom do you hear any cop state the 'them and us' mantra anymore. The only mantra today is 'stupid' or 'not stupid'. A police officer is as much a member of the community as any civilian, and has as much or more to lose in the event of aggressive performance.

Oh yeah - 'stupid' and 'not stupid' is frequently a transitional mental state, where the majority are 'not stupid' with fleeting moments of 'stupid'. I have suffered such fleeting moments in my past...but I digress.

Alternately, there is that segment of society that experiences abudent periods of 'stupid' rather then 'not stupid' and that folks, is what most police officers are asked to respond to.

There, who said I was sleeping...

 

[deepNdirt]

Holy crap! I can't wait 'til the day when the whole country starts using P25 or DMR or NXDN or other digital radios that the average Joe can't afford a scanner for. You, sir, have too much time on your hands. I have never ever ever been asked for papers showing that I own anything I have ever had in my possession when pulled over. Not the car seats for the kids, not the radio in the dash, not the bug deflector on the hood, not the trailer behind my truck, not the car on the trailer behind my truck, not the wheels on the car on the trailer behind my truck, not the tires on the wheels on the car on the trailer... Ok, I guess you get the idea. I for one would like to know if the car I was driving was reported stolen. And that is all they are doing when they "run your numbers". They are comparing it to the list of things reported stolen.

And if an officer pulls somebody over because he has a tractor on his trailer and there was a report of a tractor being stolen with R4 tires, but the tractor on the trailer didn't have R4 tires on it, WHO CARES? I don't even know what R4 tires look like, so how would the average officer know? He knows a tractor was reported stolen. And the citizen has a tractor that might match the description on his trailer.

And if a thief is traveling down the highway to go hawk the stolen tractor, or car, or whatever, the officer 2 states away from where it was stolen isn't going to intuitively know that there was a tractor stolen 2 states away and to be on the lookout for it. But if the tractor with serial number X was reported stolen and he pulls over a driver for speeding and looks at the tractor and finds the number X, which is confirmed by radio or computer to be reported stolen, then isn't that a good thing?

Geez! Somebody is a LITTLE bit paranoid! Better put on your tinfoil hat and stay indoors so they don't come get you!

Dave

Dave. why should you think I'm Paranoid? because I hear LEO pulling over vehicle after vehicle and running serial numbers after numbers after numbers...... I have no reason for paranoia, I dont drink I dont smoke I don't even cuss, actually I'm pretty laid back person if were to know me, You are right about 1 thing. I do have a lot of time on my hands lately due to No new homes being built and the fact I'm a carpenter, I've had this scanner for several years, its been typical to hear about traffic stops, car wrecks, drug possession arrest,car & motorcycle pursuits, houses burning down,Lot of family violent reports, You get the picture.... Oh! and even a report of a wife beating her husband up, But as I stated in the beginning of this thread, its been a little over excessive lately about running serial numbers on personal items, I do hope they can catch every criminal drug dealer/user and drunk driver on the road, But they cannot do that while staying busy running serial no# on personal items,............................

 

[dcyrilc]

You Folks should get you a police scanner and listen in for a while:thumbsup:

you might then can hear things through the public eyes
yes I do hear more things about alert for speeders on the interstate, or someone been reported swerving all over the road, or someone reports that there welfare check been stolen, I actually hear all things even crimes being reported, looks to me they can stay busy enough with actual crimes, then worry about stopping citizen's to run numbers on the property they own,
I hear it all Folks... again all I can say is get you a police scanner, then come back to this topic 6 months from now and chime in....

Don't need one. I just have to flip the channel on the radio in my work van. And I almost always monitor the police channel when I'm on-call. It gives me a much better response time than waiting for the pager service.

 

[deepNdirt]

while some are in the mood for telling stories, Please let me tell you one I know,
back in 1969/1970 New years night I was but a young boy of 12 but i remember it well, I had 2 uncles was ridding back from a New year celebration party they was probably good and happy,( if you know what I mean) with their friends there were 6 of them in a 1967 GTO a LEO saw that they were raising a little heck and tried to stop them, i suppose the driver was DUI so he tried to get away, the LEO said the chaise last about 10 minutes at a high rate of speed, when they ran up on a sidewalk that ran alone an overpass bride they run through the railing then landing upside down on the roadway below, pancaked the car, killing all 6 of them, de-cap one of my uncle, none of them were well enough to be seen in an open casket funeral,

These were young men ages of 17 through 21 .... yes they were doing wrong, but didn't deserve to die, I knew my uncles and they were good guys. but I'm sure the only thing the LEO saw was the bad guy's and wanted to catch them....
I know some of you LEO will say better them die than 100 others they might would have killed that night with there reckless driving, But they were on their way home and would had simply went to bed, it has always been thought if that LEO had not of given chaise they would be alive today and as good standing citizens, after all 2 of their older brothers went on to become LEO them self, Good LEO's
it took less then 1 year for a new law to be passed here in Ga, against high speed chaise,
we all Knew that the officer who chased them would be lived a terrible life knowing his involvement in the death of 6 young men, a life I personally wouldn't want to had lived knowing,

My family has never held anything against LEO's But we do know of their destruction,

 

[Bird]

Another thing I wonder about when talking of scanners and "police channel" is how many channels your local police have. When I started on the police department (1964), Dallas had 2 channels. One channel was strictly for special events or car to car while all the dispatching for patrol and traffic was on the other one. But by the time I was promoted to Captain (1976) and command of communications, we had 12 channels; 5 were for the 5 patrol division, 6th was traffic, and 7th was strictly for checking items for stolen or registration and persons for warrants. Where everything had been on one channel, and sometimes a bit quiet at that, 7 channels were manned 24/7 and were almost always busy. So anyone with a scanner would have heard only a very small portion of what was going on. And that was just the city; didn't include the state police or sheriff's department.