Hydraulic Lines: Fear of Failure

Short Game · Jun 20, 2011

J_J said:
Can you show pictures of the geometry of the loader pins and cyl arrangement on both tractors?

Man, I wish... I'm in a bit of computer **** (Hades) for some time now. Can't get pics up without someone with skills sitting in this chair and working out some patches and plugs. After a couple of years in this situation, I don't know when I might get around to it.

Ding, ding, ding... It just happens that a computer tech guy is coming here today from Portland to camp out and play disc golf with me (I maintain the course) and he knows some Linux stuff! He asked if I had any projects for him to help me with while he's here. He offered to bring his chain saw. Henh. I told him no. I think I know what he can do, now that I think about it. :thumbsup:

If I get this sorted out, there will be lots of pictures of stuff I've built, and gadgets acquired, over the past fifteen years since I became tractor addicted.

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On edit: Wow, this site censored the four letter word for the hot place down below. That's a riot!

J_J · Jun 21, 2011

If you have a digital camera, we should be able to talk you into posting pictures.

Basically, make a folder in My Pictures for your tractor pictures.

Write your post

Select Go advance at the bottom of the post.

Scroll down to advance options, and then select Manage Attachments.

Select browse, and it will bring up the MY Pictures folder, and click on a picture.

Click Upload.

If the picture is to large, you will have to re-size.

Close out that window.

Then click Submit reply at the bottom of the post. You are done.

After you have posted, you have about 24 hrs of time to edit the post and add new pictures.

If you choose, you can delete the complete post within that time period.

After that, only a moderator can remove a post.

J_J · Jun 21, 2011

Short Game,

If the curl cyl on your loader is 2 in, and the rod is 1 in . With a hyd pressure of 2500 psi, you should have a push force of 7854 lbs, and a pull force of 5890 lbs on one cyl, and if you have two cyl operating the bucket, you have 15,708 lbs push force, and 11,780 lbs pull force. That is with a straight on push/pull. Angular differences of the cyl to the bucket face other than perpendicular will decrease that force.

Depending on the orientation of you FEL valve, does your levers for the curl cyl's work like this?
Up or fwd motion will cause the bucket to to roll down or dump, and down or reverse on the FEL levers will cause the bucket to curl up?

Does you FEL valve have regen? Otherwise, a forth position.

J_J · Jun 21, 2011

After looking at this picture, I see the negative aspect of the bucket and cyl arrangement. Very poor setup in my opinion. The mechanical disadvantage is there from the start.

Specs on that loader show a lift force of 2500 lbs, and a breakout force of 4354 lbs.

So if you had a 1500 lb log on the forks and the center of the log was no more than 15 in from the pin, you should be able to lift that log and curl it anytime.

The specs say the rollback time is 1.7 sec

Short Game · Jun 21, 2011

Since I'm using my homemade bucket forks and I can have the log no closer to the pivot than 33 inches, adding another several inches out to where the center of the log rests on the forks, and with the upper and lower pins being so close together, it adds up to nothing but mechanical disadvantage at every opportunity.

The loader in the picture you posted is not like the one I have. Mine doesn't have those curved booms. It looks like most loaders, until you get to where the bucket release hardware is. I see there are different approaches to that feature by different manufacturers.

The joystick control has six positions:
Center=neutral.
Down=boom up.
Up=boom down.
Up, up/lock=float.
Left=rollback/curl.
Right=dump.

As far as my pictures are concerned, my computer had a browser crash a few years ago and it scrambled something in the OS. I have not been able to open the files in my camera. The OS sees the camera where it's supposed to be, but when I click on it, it tells me I can't access the files and the Camera disappears from the drives list. My friend thinks I must redo my OS. Also lost when the crash happened was all ability to back anything up or write to discs or other drives. So, when I do the deed, it will be to lose everything in this box. So, between that, and all my spare time, I tend to keep on going with what I have. I'm too dumb to have Linux, and too poor to have Windoze.

Even though I have this new tractor, I still have to do most things on the cheap.

Short Game · Jun 22, 2011

The first time I tried to boot up after my friend left, it would no longer boot up. We never even touched it while he was here. We split wood and played disc golf. I'm on someone else's old laptop just to say I might be scarce around the internet for a bit.

Short Game · Jun 30, 2011

All righty then, the dealer mechanic loaned me a gauge and I just checked roll-back pressure. It was right up there near the rated pump pressure: 2400 psi. Granted it was a 10,000 psi (full scale) gauge, but whatever the exact reading, it was close enough for me in any case. I'm at the point of admitting that it is just not going to do what my old Cub Cadet could do in the way of bucket roll-back strength, for the leverage reasons I theorized above.

Short Game · Jul 13, 2011

J_J said:
After looking at this picture, I see the negative aspect of the bucket and cyl arrangement. Very poor setup in my opinion. The mechanical disadvantage is there from the start.

So if you had a 1500 lb log on the forks and the center of the log was no more than 15 in from the pin, you should be able to lift that log and curl it anytime.

I'm resigned that the problem is the two ways that the leverage issues differ from my old loader. There is nothing that I can do easily to widen the close spread of the top and bottom pins. As for the distance out from the pin to the base of the forks, that I can reduce from 33 inches to 11 inches, putting the center of a 20 inch log at 21 inches out, instead of 43.

Today, I'm going to get the steel to build my own six foot, on center, fork setup that will bring the base of the forks two thirds closer to the lower pin. This should be better for what I'm doing in every way. The other day, I had to move some logs from where my old tractor easily placed them. I could barely do it, and had to pick them from down slope so they wouldn't roll off the forks, as the curl force couldn't touch them.

Short Game · Aug 25, 2011

On Wednesday I was at the LS dealer and side by side on the lot was a 2010 R4020 (with the same loader as my R4010) and a 2011 R4047, the newer iteration standing next to the older one. One difference I could see in the loader, besides moving the joystick position, was larger bucket cylinders.

I think it's time to contact LS and see if they'll trade me straight across for my smaller ones. Obviously, they've got a notion about this problem now.