I'm an old timer and am finding this thread fascinating. I've always made a living building things, and sometimes that means writing manuals and sometimes patents as well.
We all like to help out, but my family has to eat too. I don't charge much, but I need to charge something for my time. If I didn't charge for my own work then I'd have to end up having to beg someone else for a job. So why in the world would I do these things for free? As far as I can see, the answer is that I wouldn't.....not because I don't want to because most of what I do I'd like to do for free. But far as I can see the world doesn't work that way.
I hear you on the part about safety though. Here's a solution that meets your needs: What would you say if all the safety warnings were made downloadable for free, but the rest of the manual with all the specifications and operations would cost the normal price. Does that sound workable or right to you?
rScotty
i ask for forgiveness, i did not mean, any sort of disrespect. i say this, after re-reading the quote and my original post again. and i should of taken time and thought about a better way to voice my opinion. vs coming off like someone shooting there mouth off.
I feel many of the tractor manufacturers are stuck and are not changing with the times. if ya do not change ya end up falling behind. I am sure we all know some pretty good stubborn folks set in there ways, young and old. and everyone else in between. and there is no way to talk to these folks once they have set there mind. and in that, i tend to see more older folks. get more stubbornness from them, and set in there ways. i would imagine when i get 60 plus years of age, i to will be more stubborn. I tend to see younger folks more so those folk in highschool. or right of highschool and in collage. as the more ability to take changes easier and quicker. and when it comes to internet and computers. the age gap, of computers and more so internet, for the older crowd was just not around when they were younger. and in that my original post, was geared to above thinking. "right or wrong"
as far as manual writes, and parts / diagram artists. these folks are truly needed. and i know my words did not state it earlier. but i do know these folks need to get paid. we all gotta eat. and reach our own goals in life.
but like any newer company out there, there is need for a larger "web presence" to get the information out there. to rely on folks that see a little of everything in local tractor repair stores. there is no way to expect them to know it all. and the gap of information needs to be filled.
i truly wish automotive companies, would of done this already, to came together to form a common computer programing protocol, and a set of specs that became uniform across them all. to publish Part details and diagrams. along with specs for like torquing. vs letting it fall on repair shops across the world. to pool together to get information and playing ine minie miny moe games. of how do i get this information from this manufacturer and this other info from this one. but instead things have fallen down to the physical parts manufacturers who wholesale parts to repair places. and each wholesaler manufacture having there own settings.
i hear it more and more than no run of the mill house hold person wants to work on newer vehicles due to all the electronics in them. and many of these things could of been dealt with by simply placing information on the web. and in that i believe automotive industry has let things fall. and as a result there is a rash of "get rich schemes and devices" to read codes from a computer hook up on newer vehicles.
i am now looking at tractor manufacturers. tractors are no easy thing to get to a repair shop like an automotive (car / truck) and some things need to be fixed in the field. the electronics on them are not that overly complex yet. they are getting there. in the "ag" class tractors, 100 plus HP, and in combines for sure.
to be honest, i look at computer manufactures first. they will most likely always be in the lead, and i tend to see things trickle down from there to other industries. in how things are handled. at one time i use to hear, i never get a manual but a CD. or a website URL i had to goto download a manual. that has done past. and now, it is more what is the website URL i need togo so i can get the info on my cellphone, or laptop, etc...
industries that have little need for computers for there daily run of the mill business are normally the industries taking longer to switch to the web.
for example, CDs were just one format at one time, going against other companies that banded together for some other formats, same thing happen with DVD's along with double layer dvd's, and the same thing has happen with blue ray discs. it has been a gamble for many companies, and eventually market / demand has won out to different formats that folks are commonly know.
when taking above, i would say New holland, and john deere has the lead.and perhaps combine together to muscle out other competitors for online presence and information. or other companies split go against each other. but at moment, it is a all out cold war, and all these companies can do is show "service" and backing behind there product. and twiddling there thumbs. example bobcat website, they promote strong training courses and like directly through there website, in attempt to in my eyes squeeze extra cash out. or attempt to help fill a void and cause less accidents to happen. (depends on eye of beholder)
and yes in this time of age, when TBN, and other tractor forums, and Youtube and other websites. are filling a large void, and many times free of charge, that i think the manufactures should be filling first when it comes to information. and instead of trying to squeeze extra cash out of manuals that are already in computer format, and dealers and like already have available to them.
to clarify above more, do to mass amounts of products (model numbers) and then model revisions, and serial numbers. and from manufacture eyes, trying to confirm yes this person is an actuall owner of my product would take more man power and more cost, vs just giving the info to the public freely. and putting the cost of making manuals into the cost of the tractors and implements. vs trying to treat the manuals as "repair parts" oh i sub contracted this out, and i sub contracted these parts out to be made. so i will just treat manuals as "re pair parts as well"
yes i realized some manufactures may have in house, while other sub contract there manuals out to publishing companies. the information should still be there and be expected. it is not. oh this is what i get. it should be demanded and expected. regardless if in house or sub contracted. i truly would not think contracts of longer than 5 years are still there. and no way of modifying contracts of things sub contracted out.
if ya ever been in a publishing company, they have the staff, and know how and the artists, and the writers. and the software to boot. to create things. in this day and age, nearly all imaging programs, to text document programs. have ability to export to different formats. heck, a kid still in highschool geared for computers is were things are with many of these programs and how to use them. granted i doubt i will leave entire thing to a highschool kids. due to over all cost of some of these packaging software that are geared directly to 3D editing.
it is not that complex and majority of the run of the mill website design companies out there can create the front end and back end websites were end users see front of website, and back end, were the IT staff adds a file here or there for manuals. majority of all CMS (content management systems) website software, can quickly create a even simplest doing of manual listings. even regular shopping cart software for Ecommerce for selling products through your own website has this stuff built in, or fairly easy to install a add-on, plug-in, extension. that can satisfy majority and then some. the only complex part of tractor manufactors is the over all world and market places and being in different languages and allowing, text both on website and in manuals to be easy converted to another language. been even then. the newer based website content management systems out there has this ability, it does take a little more work and know how at the IT staff to pull things off successfully.
what i am saying, there is no great need for a bunch of custom programing. beyond how you want your website to look. for regular public, granted rear end website for dealers and like is a different story.
give the IT staff for your company a call, ask questions, of why and why not. KISS (keep it simply stupid), get your tractor models and revision information, find those old user manuals that are hopefully still in a computer format, pay some extra cash to get the older manuals scanned into PDF format. get the enter zip to find a local dealer going, get they "awe look" and it looks all nice with a bunch of graphics crud out, and get the info that is wanted out there to the public.
get out of "flash" and "java" and get back to the basics, of HTML, php, javascript, css, asp, etc... fire the marketing staff, that is spending large some of cash on the wow effect. that really doesn't do much good. a website is not a TV commercial.
i hate to say it, but when repair shops and like are spinning there computer screens around to general public, to show hey look here, is this it, along with email or tossing them a cd with any give manual type on it. it is happening instead of trying to control it, which you really can not, how about dealing with it.
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forgive my long post. getting back to your question rScotty.
frankly, it would be nice to see min safety information. just the basics. 9 times out of 10, a operators manual is the basics, gives fluid types and amount, saftey warnings, that some folks may not think about till 200,000 buckeroo medical and tractor repair bill.
parts manual even more so. due to nature of the industry.
shop manuals, that give break downs and walk through, and like. ok, ya that i would still most likely charge for. but still be in computer format.
yes a full fulfillment center, were you send them the file / files and they print out a few hundred to few thousand printed documents out errr manuals out at a time can save overall cost on paper manuals. via discount costs. but when i know i will not have a computer or like nearby, and most likely there is only a couple portions of tractor i need to know about. clinking on print button to print those couple pages out, i know i can take them out not worry about wiping hands off real good, due to i know i can toss those pages away and reprint those pages out if need be. vs a thick paper manual that most likely would be an oil grease ball, if i do not take extra time to clean off my hands better.
if you have cash to own a tractor, then most likely you are doing good enough financially to own a computer and a descent cell phone / pda or laptop with internet access.
