Priming shallow well pump?

[MNBobcat]

Hi Guys,

I have a shallow well pump (not a jet) which has a plug on it where you prime it. Does anyone know, assuming there is no check-valve in the suction line, if when you remove the priming plug it introduces air into the system allowing water in the well to drain back down?

I'm not sure how these pumps are constructed internally. Trying to figure out if I lose everything I gain every time I open that plug to prime it again. Is that plug supposed to be left loose to bleed air when you're priming?

 

[EE_Bota]

Your pump needs a working foot valve. That valve is supposed to have a check valve and a screen over it to protect it from picking up debris.

A shallow well pump comes in one flavor, but two if you mean the term shallow well to be as opposed to a submersible. One has two pipes coming from the main pumping body going down into the well, and it is called a "jet pump" with the part in the well being the "Jet" and it has an integrated check valve.

The other type only has one pipe going into the well. It is a true shallow well pump. The foot valve is inexpensive, and screws onto the end of the well pipe.

You should not have to leave the plug loose. You should be able to merely pour water into the unplugged hole, and that water should not escape. You reinstall the plug, then fire up the pump and it pumps away.

You should not lose your prime, and if you do, it means that either your below water check valve is bad, or you have some leak between the footvalve and the actual pump impeller that is letting that column of water escape.

The last time I had a problem, I had a jet pump. I turned off the power, and opened a spigot to empty the system of water. But, when the water stopped flowing, the spigot then started drawing in air, so that was the water rushing down the well through a hole in my corroded old jet body.


Edit: The reason for my test was I heard a periodic thumping that I associated with excessive well starts, but not such that it would be caused by a waterlogged tank. What was happening was the pump pumped up, then the water rushed through the hole in the jet, and the switch flipped, and it repeated ad nauseum. I replaced the entire thing with a submersible.

 

[foggy1111]

I think you will allow air to enter when you remove that plug....unless you install a check valve.

Most shallow wells do NOT have a foot valve around here. Instead they have a check valve located above ground - just before the pump. Mine is brass and will hold water in the pipe for weeks.

I prime the pump once or twice to get it started in the spring (after re-installing my above ground pump) and its good to go for the season. I remove my pump and store it in the winter as I do not have a heated wellhouse.

Check my pics under "driving a new well". The check valve is shown there. I have a flange coupling also shown....which makes for easy installation and removal of the pump for storage.

 

[bp fick]

I think you will allow air to enter when you remove that plug....unless you install a check valve.

Most shallow wells do NOT have a foot valve around here. Instead they have a check valve located above ground - just before the pump. Mine is brass and will hold water in the pipe for weeks.

I prime the pump once or twice to get it started in the spring (after re-installing my above ground pump) and its good to go for the season. I remove my pump and store it in the winter as I do not have a heated wellhouse.

Check my pics under "driving a new well". The check valve is shown there. I have a flange coupling also shown....which makes for easy installation and removal of the pump for storage.

foggy and I have the same system. Shallow wells, driven, with sand points.
I also use this well/pump only in the summer. I don't want to heat a well house or fuss with it in our harsh winters.
The check valve is up in front of the pump intake. There's no footvalve on systems such as this. Shouldn't have to prime the system if used somewhat regularly, ie once a week. It should hold its prime that long, or somewhere it is leaking, one would think.

 

[EE_Bota]

Absolutely, if your's is a driven well, do what the other fellows say. Also, if you live near them geographically, you'd be better off following their lead.

You gave me clues that I missed...no jet, assume no foot valve, etc. Sorry I missed all that.

 

[MNBobcat]

I put a checkvalve on the end of the 1 1/4" pipe where it came out of the ground. Then I reduced down to a gardenhose and ran that to the inlet of the pump. Primed the snot out of the pump but couldn't get it to draw water out of the well. I'm suspecting that the garden hose is too small of an inlet and that I may need to run 1 1/4 all the way to the pump. There is 7 feet of water in the well pipe and its 18 feet deep.

 

[foggy1111]

You must have a pretty small pump MNbobcat. Keep in mind it doesnt take much of an air leak to lose (or never acheive) the ability to pull water several feet up a pipe. It will require a near perfect vaccuum to lift 18 feet or so.

I dont think a garden hose and the connections associated with the hose are going to help your cause. Just a small air leak is all it's going to take to foil your plan.

I had a leaky fitting in a pipe TEE that gave me alll kinds of fits till I eliminated it. Get rid of any excess fittings or potential leaks IMO. I see metal pipe in your future. :thumbsup:

 

[J_J]

If you have a foot valve and it is good, then you should be able to start the pump with the draw pipe full and start pumping. If you don't have a foot valve, and an intake check valve, then you should be able to suck water from about 25 ft. If you add the water hose to the 3/4 hose bib, and turn on the water, start the pump, and slowly decrease the outside water until the pump picks up the prime.

If still not pumping, check all the joints. add more glue or wrap with duct tape.

 

[bp fick]

I put a checkvalve on the end of the 1 1/4" pipe where it came out of the ground. Then I reduced down to a gardenhose and ran that to the inlet of the pump. Primed the snot out of the pump but couldn't get it to draw water out of the well. I'm suspecting that the garden hose is too small of an inlet and that I may need to run 1 1/4 all the way to the pump. There is 7 feet of water in the well pipe and its 18 feet deep.

I'd sure bring 1 1/4" all the the way to the pump intake. Trying to suck through a garden hose is much too difficult. No volume.

 

[J_J]

I put a checkvalve on the end of the 1 1/4" pipe where it came out of the ground. Then I reduced down to a gardenhose and ran that to the inlet of the pump. Primed the snot out of the pump but couldn't get it to draw water out of the well. I'm suspecting that the garden hose is too small of an inlet and that I may need to run 1 1/4 all the way to the pump. There is 7 feet of water in the well pipe and its 18 feet deep.

There is no way you could ever suck well water through a garden hose. It will flatten up real quick.

 

[EE_Bota]

Doesn't the area between where the OP installed his check and the actual water level in the well also need to have all the air displaced by a good priming?

 

[J_J]

Sure, that could take just a couple of minutes, if everything is sealed good.

 

[EE_Bota]

Sure, that could take just a couple of minutes, if everything is sealed good.

Getting water to go against the check direction suggests that something has to get unsealed. Doesn't that start a race condition?

 

[J_J]

The pump will pull a vacuum and uncheck the check. A little water added above the check will help.

 

[MNBobcat]

I'd sure bring 1 1/4" all the the way to the pump intake. Trying to suck through a garden hose is much too difficult. No volume.

That's exactly what I did yesterday. The garden hose was temporary just to see if the well would work. I'm installing 4 points and plumbing them all equidistant from each other and from the pump. So I didn't want to hard pipe the first point only to see if I was going to sustain water from the well. I have 7 feet of water in the pipe right now but don't know what might happen to that level when I start pumping. I want to get one point working and see what I have before sinking the other 3 points.

But....I don't think I was able to create enough vacuum through a 3/4" line to lift the water in the 1 1/4" column which is the well. So yesterday I started plumbing it with 1 1/4" PVC (because it will get thrown away and PVC is less expensive).

Unfortunately, the pump I had drew too many amps for the circuit I have available. It even tripped the breaker on a generator I tried. So at that point it was either rewire the pump for 220 (220 is what the final installation will use) or go get a smaller pump. I had a 2 hp pump and I'm now going to a 1 hp pump. The 1 hp pump is good for about 45 gallons a minute which should be plenty to run my 4 sprinklers simultaneously. I know I won't get 45 GPM capacity from my 4 points...but I'd be happy with 20 GPM. I can add a 5th point if need be.

The other issue I'm dealing with is we've had a tremendous amount of rain this year. There is water in places that haven't been wet in 20 years. So I don't know if my well well run dry in a normal year. I'll have to deal with it then if it does. I can maybe go down another 3 feet but then I hit clay. Don't have a lot of options on depth. The only other option I have is to move the wells closer to a swamp. Hopefully, that won't be necessary.

 

[bp fick]

Here in the northern mid-west, it is somewhat common to have a layer of sand, say 10-25 feet which holds the surface water. At 20-30 feet, it is common to hit that first layer of harder, clay type, water "holding" layer of sub strata.

There's no point in pushing, grunting, driving through that clay layer because the water that might lay beneath it further down in a gravel strata is typically too far down for shallow well systems anyhow. If you are concerned about whether you're deep enough for a dry year, you might knock your points down another foot, but honestly, if your surface water peters out in a drought year, you're toast anyhow. Sometimes, someone a half mile away digs a huge lake and disrupts the shallow water table as well. That happened to us 25 years ago when a big subdivision development went in near our semi-rural home.

I've pulled water, using a simple, cheap jet pump, of low HP, from 3-5 sand points. Not an issue. It is only going to pull what it can pull, volume wise, anyhow. We always used to test our individual driven points by using a simple pitcher pump. I think you'll be fine. You can always put your sprinkler in circuits and run them at different times. A guys gotta do, what a guy gotta do.

 

[MNBobcat]

BP,

You're correct! Our clay layer is 33 feet deep and then there is hard gravel under it. I'd have to go down 55 feet to reach the start of the gravel. I can make a drill rig to do that if need be but until I know I'll have a problem in dry years I'm not going to worry about it. There is a river about 700 feet to the west and low land which holds water about 200 feet to the east. We're known as the land of 10,000 lakes and the DNR shows wells at 18 - 21 feet in the area. So I'm hoping we have reliable water. We'll see!

 

[foggy1111]

As has been said....this year we have a higher water table than the past...due to all the rain. May change in the future for you MNBobcat.....but you wont know till it happens unfortuneately.

When operating my well for the first time......I simply threaded on a small pitcher pump (threaded onto the top of the 1 1/4" pipe) and operated it by hand. You can prime it by pouring water into the top of it....and it will pump quite allot of water on a trial basis. That is the method I would use to get those wells started.

After you KNOW you have water.....you can plumb your pump system.