Hard times for tractor dealers?

[kco]

Interesting observation. City folk buy some acreage and become wannabe farmers. Don't have a clue and that's fine with me. They get some stock, usually horses (absolutely the worst thing to have), buy an underpowered tractor and some auction implements (not that they have a clue how to use them in the first place) and I wind up running their hay or selling them hay for their hayburners. All good for me. Successful farming is a profession, not a hobby. It involves many aspects, from a herbicide/pesticide applicators license to knowledgable soil testing and practiced conservation methods and a substantial investment in equipment.

I would never dream of owning any tractor under 100 horsepower except for mowing lawns. I believe the cheapest implement I own is a Krone 2 rotor gyro rake and that was 15 grand.

I read many posts on this site (and others) and chuckle. I find it amazing just how screwed up an ill informed and naieve person can be, not only in terms of tractor/implement maintainence but just trying to 'attempt' to do the basic jobs with an ill used implement and an underpowered tractor.

I see most people buy smaller tractors with hydrostatic transmissions and that's all well and good for light duty chores like a back hoe or a lawnmower, but for serious work, you need serious horsepower and a real gear drive, multi range transmission. Automatics are fine in cars but for ground engagement, no.

Keep moving th the sticks and keep calling. I have more than I can handle, but I'm greedy so I'll take on more. When I rool in with a mower and bailer that costs as much as their house (they always ask), they start to realize that farming is about professional equipment and professional methods.

It's almost impossible to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

From your attitude and post, you can be sure you'd be the LAST person I'd call for hay.

Many of these people are moving to the country to enjoy a more natural lifestyle and perhaps grow some real food instead of the ersatz crap sold by the increasingly prevalent money-only oriented "professional" outfits. These "professionals" maximize profit and return on capital with no regard for long term effects on the land, wildlife or animals raised in conditions reminiscent of the holocaust. They crowd out true farmers--the "little" guys whose aim is to make a decent living by cherishing their land, animals and neighbours and enjoy a way of life that is disappearing all too quickly.

I'm not putting down profit, but I certainly don't like greed. And very large farming operations can operate with the same values as the little guy. For years I bought hay for my 3 "hay burners" from Valley Hay Sales, which I'm sure makes your operation look pretty rinky dink.

Here is a link: Valley Hay Sales :: Top Quality Horse Hay For Sale :: Turner Valley, Alberta Canada

I met the owner, Bob Seaman, a couple of times when I picked up a bit of hay at his modest home. I never got the feeling he looked down on me or other small acreage owners. I would call him each year to deliver my one load of hay bales and always felt I got the same respect the manager of Spruce Meadows (his main customer) received. If you aren't familiar with it, there is a link for Spruce Meadows on Valley Hay Sale's webpage.

Haying can be "hit and miss" in the foothills west of Calgary and in years when he did not have enough hay, Bob would import it from other areas. We never went short. No doubt he made a profit on the hay, but I know his main purpose was to take care of his customers, including us wannabee farmers--profit was secondary.

Anyhow, I wish more of society were bumbling wannabee farmers. It would be much healthier for all.

 

[IronHog]

It's really prett silly to think or imply that one needs 100+ hp to makes hay. Or a $15k hayrake for that matter.

The guys making money on hay are the one's running the half wore out stuff behind old, yet still good tractors.


And who would want a 100+ HP tractor on a hay operation?

 

[Duffster]

The guys making money on hay are the one's running the half wore out stuff behind old, yet still good tractors.


And who would want a 100+ HP tractor on a hay operation?

I would. That is what we use. But not because we need the hp for the hay but for other operations. Once you have the hp it is nice to have but silly to think one needs it. Unless.......

A lot of hay made around is on (larger) dairy farms and most are using 200hp. When I help the neighbor fill bunkers the tractors range from 175 to 300. Only one is less then 200 and it sucks. But then they make 300 acres a day.

 

[Chef Pa]

From your attitude and post, you can be sure you'd be the LAST person I'd call for hay.

Many of these people are moving to the country to enjoy a more natural lifestyle and perhaps grow some real food instead of the ersatz crap sold by the increasingly prevalent money-only oriented "professional" outfits. These "professionals" maximize profit and return on capital with no regard for long term effects on the land, wildlife or animals raised in conditions reminiscent of the holocaust. They crowd out true farmers--the "little" guys whose aim is to make a decent living by cherishing their land, animals and neighbours and enjoy a way of life that is disappearing all too quickly.

I'm not putting down profit, but I certainly don't like greed. And very large farming operations can operate with the same values as the little guy. For years I bought hay for my 3 "hay burners" from Valley Hay Sales, which I'm sure makes your operation look pretty rinky dink.

Here is a link: Valley Hay Sales :: Top Quality Horse Hay For Sale :: Turner Valley, Alberta Canada

I met the owner, Bob Seaman, a couple of times when I picked up a bit of hay at his modest home. I never got the feeling he looked down on me or other small acreage owners. I would call him each year to deliver my one load of hay bales and always felt I got the same respect the manager of Spruce Meadows (his main customer) received. If you aren't familiar with it, there is a link for Spruce Meadows on Valley Hay Sale's webpage.

Haying can be "hit and miss" in the foothills west of Calgary and in years when he did not have enough hay, Bob would import it from other areas. We never went short. No doubt he made a profit on the hay, but I know his main purpose was to take care of his customers, including us wannabee farmers--profit was secondary.

Anyhow, I wish more of society were bumbling wannabee farmers. It would be much healthier for all.

:thumbsup:

 

[5030]

All I'm reading on your post is blah, blah, blah. I'd like to see you 100 hp tractor fit in my residential garage or take care of my 2 acre property. One of my neighbors has this very old CAT escavator, you could park a VW bug in the bucket of this thing. Anyway, not sure how he got it on his property but most likely it was broken down in pieces.

He used it to pull out thre tree stumps-because the bucket was so big he ended up using chains to pull them out instead of scooping. Took about 1 hour to pull the stumps but now he has about 10 hours of cleaning up the mess the tracks made in his lawn. Then he has to perform maintenance in this baheamoth not just talking about the fuel it cost him. So yes-you can have too much.

Stop being old fashion, automatic is here to stay regardless of the size. And while your left behind playing with your sticks the rest of us will be focusing on making the tractor work for us and not the other way around.

From what I just read-you sir, are no farmer. A real farmer is more than willing to help a neighbor-not mock them. Keeping mocking and keep on being greedy-karma can be a real *****. Oh and yes, I grew up on a farm.....

You've obviously forgotten that farming is a business, not a hobby. Being a business, it's profit oriented. You might have grown up on a farm but you were a snot nosed kid, not the bill payer or the equipment buyer.

It's really prett silly to think or imply that one needs 100+ hp to makes hay. Or a $15k hayrake for that matter.

It's size and efficiency in operation. I size my equipment to my operation. If my acres increased, I'd go bigger in power. A good forage harvester is upwards of 500 horsepower. It's all economy of scale.

From your attitude and post, you can be sure you'd be the LAST person I'd call for hay.
Many of these people are moving to the country to enjoy a more natural lifestyle and perhaps grow some real food instead of the ersatz crap sold by the increasingly prevalent money-only oriented "professional" outfits. These "professionals" maximize profit and return on capital with no regard for long term effects on the land, wildlife or animals raised in conditions reminiscent of the holocaust. They crowd out true farmers--the "little" guys whose aim is to make a decent living by cherishing their land, animals and neighbours and enjoy a way of life that is disappearing all too quickly.

I'm not putting down profit, but I certainly don't like greed. And very large farming operations can operate with the same values as the little guy. For years I bought hay for my 3 "hay burners" from Valley Hay Sales, which I'm sure makes your operation look pretty rinky dink.

Here is a link: Valley Hay Sales :: Top Quality Horse Hay For Sale :: Turner Valley, Alberta Canada

I met the owner, Bob Seaman, a couple of times when I picked up a bit of hay at his modest home. I never got the feeling he looked down on me or other small acreage owners. I would call him each year to deliver my one load of hay bales and always felt I got the same respect the manager of Spruce Meadows (his main customer) received. If you aren't familiar with it, there is a link for Spruce Meadows on Valley Hay Sale's webpage.

Haying can be "hit and miss" in the foothills west of Calgary and in years when he did not have enough hay, Bob would import it from other areas. We never went short. No doubt he made a profit on the hay, but I know his main purpose was to take care of his customers, including us wannabee farmers--profit was secondary.

Anyhow, I wish more of society were bumbling wannabee farmers. It would be much healthier for all.

Don't worry, you are too far away and I don't have any desire to obtain a passport or leave my firearm at home.....eh!

I'm not doing this for the joy. I'm doing it for the money. It's a business. You don't comprehend that but then I don't expect you to.

The guys making money on hay are the one's running the half wore out stuff behind old, yet still good tractors.


And who would want a 100+ HP tractor on a hay operation?[/QUOTE]

That sounds like a purely person observation based solely on your opinion and what you've read on the net. I don't want to wrench on equipment because wrenching is downtime. You go get it done and put up asap. Wore out hay equipment is fine for a hobby farmer (aka...moved from the city to the country, bought a horse and needs some small squares off a little plot to feed the nag). It's not a hobby with me. It's an occupation. I run new or well maintained equipment on a strict maintenance schedule. That's how business works.

The one thing I don't want is a breakdown half way through a job with my customer looking on and wondering why I hired 'that idiot'.

100 horse PTO is the minimum, I say MINIMUM requirement. especially round bailing with a new net wrap cross cut machine. Becaue my operation runs mostly small squares (though I have a BR780), I can get along with 100 pto. Even my small square bailer is rated at 75 input.

It's about being efficient and not beating on a tractor because it's underpowered. I want to walk a field at 3mph and get it done.

I would. That is what we use. But not because we need the hp for the hay but for other operations. Once you have the hp it is nice to have but silly to think one needs it. Unless.......

A lot of hay made around is on (larger) dairy farms and most are using 200hp. When I help the neighbor fill bunkers the tractors range from 175 to 300. Only one is less then 200 and it sucks. But then they make 300 acres a day.

It's economy of scale.

The comment about how my larger tractor would never fit in a residential grage is inane and insane.... One, it's too tall, 2, it's an ag machine not a glorified lawnmower and 3, It's a tool, like a hammer. I don't romance tractors and I look at equipment as a business expense.

I look at people in urban enviroments with small diesel tractors as 'looking better than the guy next door' It'a all about one-upmanship, I have this tractor and some implements. Do I really need it....of course not, but it inflates my libido. I wax it, play with it and impress the neighbors...The American way and great for these manufacturers. However, again, it's business with me. I mow my lawn with a regular lawnmower. I'd never consider a tractor to mow (the lawn) with.

If I need a backhoe or a specilized tool, I go rent it. Better to let some one else eat the cost of ownership, maintenance and wrenching. I can use it, return it and forget about it.

I had a Bradco hoe and sold it. Why have a piece of equipment sitting unused except ocassionally and when you go to put it on, you have to pre-treat with wasp and hornet spray because the insects are the only ones using it.:laughing:

 

[Duffster]

It's size and efficiency in operation. I size my equipment to my operation. If my acres increased, I'd go bigger in power. A good forage harvester is upwards of 500 horsepower. It's all economy of scale.

No, a large forage harvestor is upwards of 500 hp. You can a run a perfectly good chopper on 90 hp. We have for years.

I am curious how many acres of hay you make. If it's is a small square operation it is indeed silly to think one needs more than a 100 hp.

 

[5030]

Frankly, I don't expect posters who really have no conception of what a professional farmer, for profit, is.

I suspect most of the small tractor posters think everything edible comes from the grocery, a tractor is a status symbol and actually making a living from the mechanized tools you have is far fetched at best.

Yes, I make money.

Yes, I'm in demand and I have more business than I really have tme for and

...especially with forage, you can't fool Mother Nature, she always wins. That's why it's of paramount importance to get it done, done right and as quickly as possible.

I don't screw around, never have, never will. Haying is always 'under the gun'.

I've seen a lot of good hay turn to brown moldy crap because the harvester was using 'old half worn out equipment' and it broke down...and of course it rained for a week.

I have one contract job in particular. The guy had haying equipment and a tractor and kept loosing his hay because the crap equipment broke down and the field got wet. he sold everything (smart man) and now I do his fields. he's farther ahead, his barn is full and in the long run, it's cheaper, plus his hands don't get greasy and there isn't a bunch of junk sitting in his barnyard.

 

[5030]

No, a large forage harvestor is upwards of 500 hp. You can a run a perfectly good chopper on 90 hp. We have for years.

I am curious how many acres of hay you make. If it's is a small square operation it is indeed silly to think one needs more than a 100 hp.

It varies per year. My owned ground, I round bale all of it. Contract jobs are by requirement. I'm averaging around 200 acres but that includes wheat straw (just finished off a 4500 bale contract) and clover over wheat stubble.

Some jobs are small, some larger. I'm getting quite a bit of smaller plots where the owners have a nag and need hay or their grass field run and don't really have a clue as to the machinery needed or the wallet to buy it.

I use 2 tractors because one stays hitched to the BR780 and the other sees multiple implements. The M runs everything but and the 105 is the round bailer tractor. Because the 780 is computerized and the console is in the 105, it stays hooked.

 

[rtimgray]

5030 - I apologize if I have misunderstood - you do 200 acres of hay per year? Is that both for youself and contractor work?

Thanks.

 

[MMagis]

5030, most of what you say is indeed correct, but your delivery sucks. To be honest, I have no idea how any of this fits the original post?