Towing a square baler

[Robert_in_NY]

For hauls over 25 miles I would put the equipment on a trailer. Then you are safely towing at highway speeds and not incurring wear on your ag equipment. If you dont have a trailer just check around to see who rents in your area. Car hauler flat deck trailer rentals usually run under $100 for a one day rental.

Most balers and a lot of farm implements are too wide for trailers and ackward for loading. You would have to disassemble part of the baler to be able to meet the width restrictions unless you get an oversized permit.

 

[Dill]

I towed my 435 IH back from Barton VT on 2 lane highways, 50mph the whole way, and 4 hours. My father's 328 we put on the trailer, it took 3 fork lifts fly it on, we put the plunger side on the deck and blocked the axle under the pickup side. It hung about 2 ft over the side, but we made it home without issue.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

YeeeeHaaaa!! That disc weigh darn near what your truck weighs? Any curves or downhills - or better yet... downhill curves?

AKfish

No problem....Pulled it behind a Kenworth road tractor.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The old IH discs could only be towed about 35 miles per hour tops or they would start whipping!!!

To put a set of back scratchers on and it drops to about 20 for top speed. Some of the new models like the 490 they have better balance and although heavy they can be pulled at 45 to 50 with out issue with pick-up but will hold faster with a larger vehicle.

We ran a chain from the hitch pole (near the front, close to where the pin goes) to the frame as far to the outside as possible, then used a ratchet binder to tighten the chain. That's the ONLY way you can tow a Deere disc without whipping, and it seemed to help on the IH disc. It was still pretty stable @ 35mph....My nerves weren't quite as stable.

Since we dragged the 470 home, I've found a much nicer 496. It's got a Hinniker bar mounted on the back. It'll make the 4440 blow black smoke!

 

[art]

We ran a chain from the hitch pole (near the front, close to where the pin goes) to the frame as far to the outside as possible, then used a ratchet binder to tighten the chain. That's the ONLY way you can tow a Deere disc without whipping, and it seemed to help on the IH disc. It was still pretty stable @ 35mph....My nerves weren't quite as stable.

Since we dragged the 470 home, I've found a much nicer 496. It's got a Hinniker bar mounted on the back. It'll make the 4440 blow black smoke!

I sold a 496 18' to a farm to go behind a 4440 and had to take it back in trade for a 475. Was strange as we had quite a few behind 1066's and 1086's. They did have a 1066 but only one person enjoyed driving it to pull the disc so they swapped discs! Go figure, the 1066 was there spreader tractor because it would start in the winter! I guess they could have bought better tractors, but green blood runs thick, I guess the word thick describes them the best!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I sold a 496 18' to a farm to go behind a 4440 and had to take it back in trade for a 475. Was strange as we had quite a few behind 1066's and 1086's. They did have a 1066 but only one person enjoyed driving it to pull the disc so they swapped discs! Go figure, the 1066 was there spreader tractor because it would start in the winter! I guess they could have bought better tractors, but green blood runs thick, I guess the word thick describes them the best!

Funny you should bring that up... I HAD a 1066, sold it after I bought the 4440. I found the case to be just the opposite. The 4440 would work circles around the 1066. The IH wouldn't handle the 470 on our hills..Brought it to a standstill a couple times.....The 4440 will walk right on up those same hills with the 496. Those old IH's were just like re-arranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic....No matter where you put 'em, the ship still sank.

 

[JasG]

Funny you should bring that up... I HAD a 1066, sold it after I bought the 4440. I found the case to be just the opposite. The 4440 would work circles around the 1066. The IH wouldn't handle the 470 on our hills..Brought it to a standstill a couple times.....The 4440 will walk right on up those same hills with the 496. Those old IH's were just like re-arranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic....No matter where you put 'em, the ship still sank.

I have driven several of each of these, 4430's, 4440's, 1066, and 1 1086 helping 1 farmer or another over the years. The 4430's I would say was the weakest of the bunch and did start poor in the winter. Seems that was what all 30 series were known for. The 4440's as you say would run rings around a 1066 or 86 and have power to spare. Didn't seem to matter if it was a quad or a powershift model. Other than the 30 series Deere, I have never had another make, be it IH, Cat, Cummins start in the winter as well as the Deeres.

Not to say any of them wouldn't start, just the Deere's could go to a lower temp before being plugged in.

 

[JasG]

Most balers and a lot of farm implements are too wide for trailers and ackward for loading. You would have to disassemble part of the baler to be able to meet the width restrictions unless you get an oversized permit.

I have seen some NH and Deere balers being delivered to dealers. In both case I think they were on edge, pickup edge up. I agree I wouldn't trailer a baler, more work than it's worth IMO.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I have seen some NH and Deere balers being delivered to dealers. In both case I think they were on edge, pickup edge up. I agree I wouldn't trailer a baler, more work than it's worth IMO.

Yes, that is how they are shipped from the factory, then assembled at the dealer by adding the tounge, tires and such. They box it up as compact as possible and stand it on edge so it doesn't take up as much width. It sticks up in the air quite a ways but thats easier to deal with then width as you have more height available for transporting then width.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I have driven several of each of these, 4430's, 4440's, 1066, and 1 1086 helping 1 farmer or another over the years. The 4430's I would say was the weakest of the bunch and did start poor in the winter. Seems that was what all 30 series were known for. The 4440's as you say would run rings around a 1066 or 86 and have power to spare. Didn't seem to matter if it was a quad or a powershift model. Other than the 30 series Deere, I have never had another make, be it IH, Cat, Cummins start in the winter as well as the Deeres.

The 4430's had a turbo-ed 404 cu in engine. The 404 was stretched to it's practical limits and as a result used a lot of fuel and sacrificed reliability to squeeze 125 hp out of it. I know of a few that were turned up to 135/140hp and didn't hold up at all. The smaller 30 series weren't bad starters...the 4230 and 4030....The 4430 and 4630 were different stories, albiet a MUCH more "user friendly" tractor just because of that cab!

The 4440 had the 466 cu in w/turbo. It was tuned quite mildly to get 130hp. I've seen many a 4440 tuned up to 155/160hp and as reliable as death and taxes. The same engine (w/ an intercooler) put out 200+hp (pto) on 4960's before the 4000 series was done. Deere sent IH back to the drawing board with the 4020, and the 4440 was the coup de grace.

I always wanted a 1066 IH. Even the Binder faithful will tell you the 1066 was a better tractor than the 1086 when all is said and done. I found a mint '74 open station model about a year and a half back. I was quite disappointed with it. It dynoed 145hp, but just didn't have what it takes under a load. It had the noisiest tranny I've ever been around, plus it shifted like it had cement in the gear box. And...as is USUALLY the case, the T/A was starting to go south....

Then I found the 4440. '81 model, Low hours, Power Shift, new radial duals, new cab kit, full weights, quick coupler, and 155hp on the dyno. (I've since dialed it back to 140hp) It is a joy to run and a horse of a tractor. I've put it on a 15' bat wing for a couple days, but mostly it's used to pull an 8-row planter or a 15' no till soy bean drill. Gonna try it out on a 650 bu grain cart in a few weeks. I did try it out in front of the 20' IH 496 disk. She let the black smoke roll, and handled it like a charm!

I tend to like ALL brands. No real favorite. But I do like certain models within all the brands. The 4440 is hands down one of the best models EVER from ANY brand. Where I live, Massey Ferguson owned the market for smaller tractors and IH held the advantage on 80hp and up tractors until the mid 70's. By the time the 40 series Deere made the show, it was all over for the red guys....Our IH dealer shut the doors in the early 70's. They saw the writing on the wall.....Big tractor and combine market here now is probably 75% or better "green".

 

[art]

Funny you should bring that up... I HAD a 1066, sold it after I bought the 4440. I found the case to be just the opposite. The 4440 would work circles around the 1066. The IH wouldn't handle the 470 on our hills..Brought it to a standstill a couple times.....The 4440 will walk right on up those same hills with the 496. Those old IH's were just like re-arranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic....No matter where you put 'em, the ship still sank.

Can't say that I ever saw that. I'd wonder that the tire sizing was different then what we worked with. Even seen the red pulling another bottom up hills then the deere would do. I know that at the time deere had a good shifting unit but never did see them pull like a red tractor. I know that western tractors normally had 18-4-38's on them instead of the 20'8-38's. The smaller tires could never hold the torque on the hills which wold give the stand up conditions.

Most farmers found they didn't need to shift the red ones as much do to the additional torque rise.

Did see people that could take the TA out in 2500 hours as well as saw them go 8500 hours.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Can't say that I ever saw that. I'd wonder that the tire sizing was different then what we worked with. Even seen the red pulling another bottom up hills then the deere would do. I know that at the time deere had a good shifting unit but never did see them pull like a red tractor. I know that western tractors normally had 18-4-38's on them instead of the 20'8-38's. The smaller tires could never hold the torque on the hills which wold give the stand up conditions.

Most farmers found they didn't need to shift the red ones as much do to the additional torque rise.

Did see people that could take the TA out in 2500 hours as well as saw them go 8500 hours.

Both had 20.8X38's. The ONLY way a 1066/1086 would pull an additional bottom was to turn them up WAY past the stock hp....And that could just as easily be done with the Deere. But with EITHER, you toss reliability and longevity by doing so....

4430's didn't pull quite as well as the Binders. 4440's had 'em covered, not to mention the vast difference in creature comforts, shifting,much better hydraulics, ect....even with the 4430's....

 

[art]

Both had 20.8X38's. The ONLY way a 1066/1086 would pull an additional bottom was to turn them up WAY past the stock hp....And that could just as easily be done with the Deere. But with EITHER, you toss reliability and longevity by doing so....

4430's didn't pull quite as well as the Binders. 4440's had 'em covered, not to mention the vast difference in creature comforts, shifting,much better hydraulics, ect....even with the 4430's....

WE took a mess of the 4430's in trade do to the rear end issues, the main dealer in the area wanted about 7,000 for the update and we found a dealer a ways away that was doing it through deere for us for about 1,100 at the time till deere closed the program.
We don't have to many tractors in our area that do run at the rated horsepower not that you needed to change them. Any 10 series IH always ran at 145 to 150 with break in. Same as the 4440's in our area. I did the demo on the plows my self as the tractors were both new as well as the plow. IH always had a better draft control then deere did so we always relied on that and quite often we went in one tractor size smaller when working on the three point hitch. We did switch tractors to the plow, the customer was laughing as his brother had a 4440 and had plowed the hill for him before with his and a five bottom but it spent more time on the back two then it did on all four.. The 1086 did it but didn't run away with it at the same speed as the 4440 with the five. Taught me a good thing, just because you can out perform another make tractor doesn't mean they will buy it.. Got to love the fellows with green shorts!
Pulling a disc was balance on the hills and different then the plows, same as pulling a forage harvester where you only really worked from the PTO.

The IH engine was overly built at the time to the rest of the industry even by much of todays standards although the designer had other motives! I still agaree on the cabs being better as well as the shifting even though the old straight cut gears did give improved fuel economy it wasn't enough to over come the creature comforts. Many of the dairy boys enjoyed the red tractors ground speed for towing forage boxes back to the farm but they normally used the TA as a brake instead of it's intended purpose so the repair bills did go up!!! It's kind of like trying to explain to them the merits of a hydro and PTO work, but it doesn't pull big loads well, we had to show them!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

WE took a mess of the 4430's in trade do to the rear end issues, the main dealer in the area wanted about 7,000 for the update and we found a dealer a ways away that was doing it through deere for us for about 1,100 at the time till deere closed the program.
We don't have to many tractors in our area that do run at the rated horsepower not that you needed to change them. Any 10 series IH always ran at 145 to 150 with break in. Same as the 4440's in our area. I did the demo on the plows my self as the tractors were both new as well as the plow. IH always had a better draft control then deere did so we always relied on that and quite often we went in one tractor size smaller when working on the three point hitch. We did switch tractors to the plow, the customer was laughing as his brother had a 4440 and had plowed the hill for him before with his and a five bottom but it spent more time on the back two then it did on all four.. The 1086 did it but didn't run away with it at the same speed as the 4440 with the five. Taught me a good thing, just because you can out perform another make tractor doesn't mean they will buy it.. Got to love the fellows with green shorts!
Pulling a disc was balance on the hills and different then the plows, same as pulling a forage harvester where you only really worked from the PTO.

The IH engine was overly built at the time to the rest of the industry even by much of todays standards although the designer had other motives! I still agaree on the cabs being better as well as the shifting even though the old straight cut gears did give improved fuel economy it wasn't enough to over come the creature comforts. Many of the dairy boys enjoyed the red tractors ground speed for towing forage boxes back to the farm but they normally used the TA as a brake instead of it's intended purpose so the repair bills did go up!!! It's kind of like trying to explain to them the merits of a hydro and PTO work, but it doesn't pull big loads well, we had to show them!

The axle bearing issues with the 4430's were addressed, updated and rectified before the second year of production was rolling off the line. 4430's didn't have problems beyond the initial batch. Most that did have problems were covered under warranty. I know of TWO that were repaired on the owners dime.... 7 and 9 years after they were new..... A neighbor has a '75 4430 with over 12,000 hours, on a dairy farm no less, and hasn't ever had the rear end touched....And the ones that did need bearings and weren't covered under warranty were repaired for less than $2500 at the time. Last time I heard, it wasn't even $7000 in 2011 dollars to rebuild a 4430 rear end. Deere was ALWAYS better about rectifying warranty issues....A point where IH struggled miserably. (Remember the "tent cities" outside IH dealers when the rear ends on 560's started falling apart in mass numbers?) When the IH 1466's started shedding teeth in the final drives faster than new parts could be engineered and distributed, A good friend had his '74 1466 parked at his dealers shop for 16 months waiting on updated parts to show up.

Odd how your observations on 4440 vs 10 series IH and plows is the polar opposite as was the case here in our part of the country....4440's would flat smoke a 1066/1086, and the primary reason was the outdated, sluggish low flowing hydraulics and draft control IH stuck with until the ship sank. There were a ton of devout Binderoids around here that jumped ship when they got a sample of the butt whippin's their tractors took once the SoundGaurd tractors showed up.

In the end, all you have to do is look at sales figures from back in the day....Deere left IH in the dust. The 10 series IH's were "good tractors", sadly they ran up against a "GREAT tractor"......and couldn't ever catch up.

It's a moot point now though, as IH had to peddle their name at a fire sale because of pathetic management and sticking with outdated designs until there was nothing left but to hoist the white flag, and Deere has gone on to bigger and better things.....

 

[art]

The axle bearing issues with the 4430's were addressed, updated and rectified before the second year of production was rolling off the line. 4430's didn't have problems beyond the initial batch. Most that did have problems were covered under warranty. I know of TWO that were repaired on the owners dime.... 7 and 9 years after they were new..... A neighbor has a '75 4430 with over 12,000 hours, on a dairy farm no less, and hasn't ever had the rear end touched....And the ones that did need bearings and weren't covered under warranty were repaired for less than $2500 at the time. Last time I heard, it wasn't even $7000 in 2011 dollars to rebuild a 4430 rear end. Deere was ALWAYS better about rectifying warranty issues....A point where IH struggled miserably. (Remember the "tent cities" outside IH dealers when the rear ends on 560's started falling apart in mass numbers?) When the IH 1466's started shedding teeth in the final drives faster than new parts could be engineered and distributed, A good friend had his '74 1466 parked at his dealers shop for 16 months waiting on updated parts to show up.

.....

We never touched a ring and pinion till the strike at IH that lasted for 6 months and we went out west and bought what we thought were 2500 to 3500 hour tractors and we found they were ten thousand higher. As far as the 560, that was the hot rod and a bit before my mechanic days. There were a lot of things I didn't like about those, but just like many more they are part of history.

Deere wishes it was just light bearings in the axles as they basiclly updated them to 40 series rear ends. Deere was paying for parts, labor at the time was up to the customers and that was what the 1100 was to cover! I was close enough to watch it being done on several. The twenty series rear was not strong enough to hold the power. Deere always was quick to recognize mistakes and normally was getting the mods out so they nearly beat the first tractors to the field.

It seems strange that at the deere field days highlighting the 4840 where they had a 1586 and a 7080 allis and the 1586 out pulled in distance and time both other makes, many dealers in the crowd stated it was the engine, both the deere as well as the allis were spinning before the hitch responded to the nine shanks in the ground, the 1586 didn't even loosen the turf and did that being 20 horsepower less. Deere for years never built a good draft control or if a twenty percent load change is good, seven percent was better. Nobody in this area even used them on a deere not that with the different soil bases in this area often in the same field is it easy to maintain depths.

 

[art]

Just looking we are way off base here as far as the speed to tow a baler!

 

[RickB]

The axle bearing issues with the 4430's were addressed, updated and rectified before the second year of production was rolling off the line. 4430's didn't have problems beyond the initial batch. Most that did have problems were covered under warranty. I know of TWO that were repaired on the owners dime.... 7 and 9 years after they were new..... A neighbor has a '75 4430 with over 12,000 hours, on a dairy farm no less, and hasn't ever had the rear end touched....And the ones that did need bearings and weren't covered under warranty were repaired for less than $2500 at the time. Last time I heard, it wasn't even $7000 in 2011 dollars to rebuild a 4430 rear end. Deere was ALWAYS better about rectifying warranty issues....A point where IH struggled miserably. (Remember the "tent cities" outside IH dealers when the rear ends on 560's started falling apart in mass numbers?) When the IH 1466's started shedding teeth in the final drives faster than new parts could be engineered and distributed, A good friend had his '74 1466 parked at his dealers shop for 16 months waiting on updated parts to show up.

Odd how your observations on 4440 vs 10 series IH and plows is the polar opposite as was the case here in our part of the country....4440's would flat smoke a 1066/1086, and the primary reason was the outdated, sluggish low flowing hydraulics and draft control IH stuck with until the ship sank. There were a ton of devout Binderoids around here that jumped ship when they got a sample of the butt whippin's their tractors took once the SoundGaurd tractors showed up.

In the end, all you have to do is look at sales figures from back in the day....Deere left IH in the dust. The 10 series IH's were "good tractors", sadly they ran up against a "GREAT tractor"......and couldn't ever catch up.

It's a moot point now though, as IH had to peddle their name at a fire sale because of pathetic management and sticking with outdated designs until there was nothing left but to hoist the white flag, and Deere has gone on to bigger and better things.....

Over time there were probably as many 1066's with differential failures as 4430's with final drive problems on a per thousand units built basis. A strong running 10 would not hold up over time given a steady diet of high draft loads. They built 1466's for several reasons, and most of them were to the rear of the range transmission.

 

[JasG]

You do have to give Art some credit, he does really believe in the product he works with. I always like the IH engines, it was just the rest of the machine I didn't like as much as the Deeres. I did like them as much or more than anything out there I drove other than Deere. It just seemed to me the 66 and 86's I drove were a step above the 20 series Deeres, but never caught up to the 30 series and beyond. The sound guard body, quad or powershift trans. I don't think anyone had as nice a machine till the late 80's early 90's. Or if they did I never knew anyone with one. Of course that is in my limited world where IH, Deere, and Ford were the big ones. Very few Case, Massy, around and Allis was around but dead.

 

[RickB]

You do have to give Art some credit, he does really believe in the product he works with. I always like the IH engines, it was just the rest of the machine I didn't like as much as the Deeres. I did like them as much or more than anything out there I drove other than Deere. It just seemed to me the 66 and 86's I drove were a step above the 20 series Deeres, but never caught up to the 30 series and beyond. The sound guard body, quad or powershift trans. I don't think anyone had as nice a machine till the late 80's early 90's. Or if they did I never knew anyone with one. Of course that is in my limited world where IH, Deere, and Ford were the big ones. Very few Case, Massy, around and Allis was around but dead.

I used to give Art a much harder time than I do now. He's just a hardcore old IH man and there's really not much wrong with that. I used to work for a guy that was the same way. Bled red for many reasons.

We came quite a ways from towing a square baler down the road.

 

[AKfish]

He's just a hardcore old IH man and there's really not much wrong with that.

We came quite a ways from towing a square baler down the road.

I grew up working with red machines... 560 being one of 'em! 706, 806, 826, 656, 886. All good tractors.

But... I certainly noted the differences when I had a chance to work on a green tractor for a few hours!

Most of those days are 35-40+ years in the past, at this point in time.

Nice to read comments from folks who, while they do not necessarily agree... they are respectful and thoughtful enough to avoid becoming mean spirited and insulting! :thumbsup:

We can always go back to "towing the baler down the road"!!!

AKfish