Boys drive excavator at Pa. mine, smash bulldozer

   / Boys drive excavator at Pa. mine, smash bulldozer #61  
Ok, Well here is how I see it. I agree some of comments about what should happen to the children were over the top. But the children should be punished, in some constructive manner and for a long time. What the children did was not just youthful mistakes, They apparently (at least as far as we know) did some very willful destructive acts. And after reading PaDad's post of placing the blame on the coal company, well now we know where the child's attitude comes from.

James K0UA
 
   / Boys drive excavator at Pa. mine, smash bulldozer #62  
Confession time......:D

I was a budding juvenile delinquent, I just didn't get caught or should I say, I was sneaky enough not to and had just enough sense not to get in too deep.....

Case in point. Growing up in Cleveland, near the flats, I was around large equipment that worked the steel mills.

I still remember one day I got into a closed yard and there was a Linkbelt Speeder that I was dying to 'play' with. I'd probably be somewhere else other than here if I was able to get it started. I wasn't able to get the pony motor started to start the big Cat diesel. In those days, large diesels were started with gas engines and not starting batteries.

I remember it had lots of levers and pulleys and a whole bunch of cables plus it smelled like grease and oil, candy to a youg boy.... It had a huge stick with a big clamshell bucket on thye end.....

I still remember.:)

Parents today are rether hamstrung when it comes to discipline. In today's society, it a big no-no to physically punsih your children, heck, kids can call the cops on their parents and claim physical abuse.

If I pulled a stunt like that when I was a kid, my dad would lace me with his black coalminer's belt and I knew it.

One reason I don't like kids and have never had any. I'm not of the mind not to spare the rod and spoil the child.
 
   / Boys drive excavator at Pa. mine, smash bulldozer #63  
, I just wish she didn't have the attitude of if something breaks "Santa will bring me another":eek:


you should change your nick to Santa in NY... hehe:laughing: :laughing: :D
 
   / Boys drive excavator at Pa. mine, smash bulldozer #64  
You know, you made a good point that I have neglected with my own child. I grew up in a family that didn't have much money and as a result I never had much. My "fun" as a kid was taking a short handled shovel and digging holes in a dirt pile left over from when the house foundation was dug. I would keep myself busy all day digging and filling in holes. It kept me out of the house and away from my three sisters. I never got in trouble or even messed around with anyone elses equipment even though it was all around the area being in a rural country setting. But as I got older I started working when I turned 12 and have been working ever since (21 years now). Almost everything I have or had while growing up I bought with my own money and as a result I take great care of my things and others.

However, after saying all that, I have a great little girl who turned 7 a couple weeks ago. I have been fortunate enough to not have to worry about money too much anymore. I am not rich (which is why I won't pay my NH dealer to get back my tractor they screwed me over on) but I can afford to buy my daughter what she wants and basically spoil her. I guess I do so because I didn't want her to grow up not having much. But she is very spoiled and doesn't take care of any of her toys/electronics and such. It was frustrating but your post just reminded me of why she is that way. I am not raising her like I was raised, I am raising her the way I wish I was raised and to be honest, I think I turned out ok. My daughther is a great kid though and is very caring and helpful to others so I am not disappointed, I just wish she didn't have the attitude of if something breaks "Santa will bring me another":eek:

You sound kind of like me. When I was about 3 or4 my dad and his dad built us a cinderblock house so we could move out of the tin barn we were in. I still remember how much fun I had playing with the lumber scraps. I think I was about 6-7 when an aunt gave me and my brother Bugs Bunny dolls. And probably the most fun I remember was getting the box the refrigerator came it. As far as responsibility, I also remember a friend of the family bought a small service station in partnership with his nephew. It didn't make enough money for either to quit their jobs so he offered for me to work there. He would drop me off in the morning to open up and pick me up in the evening when we closed. I would pump gas and fix flats. Did I mention that I was 13 years old? :) He couldn't afford to pay me so when the summer was over he gave me my first truck.. a '59 Ford.
And I think I had a great childhood. :)
 
   / Boys drive excavator at Pa. mine, smash bulldozer #65  
Parents today are rether hamstrung when it comes to discipline. In today's society, it a big no-no to physically punsih your children, heck, kids can call the cops on their parents and claim physical abuse.

If I pulled a stunt like that when I was a kid, my dad would lace me with his black coalminer's belt and I knew it.

One reason I don't like kids and have never had any. I'm not of the mind not to spare the rod and spoil the child.[/QUOTE]

i believe in whippings not spankings. with a whipping you remember not to do that again. if my son throws a fit in the store guess what happens. i had more people compliment me for doing that then the ones that complain. if, and it has happened, someone says something about what i am doing i kindly tell them they can be next if they please. not too many people want to tangle with a 6ft, 260 pound guy with 15.5 in forearms.
 
   / Boys drive excavator at Pa. mine, smash bulldozer #66  
This is the first time I have spoken on this topic. I will agree that some of the comments were a bit much ... however, those comments are not why the kids did what they did.

padad, I can understand that you and your wife work very hard to support your family. Raising a family is not cheap ... it takes money, but it also takes time.

Even though some who work long hours try to spend "quality time" with their children, there is a misnomer that many have discovered when it was too late. Though "quality" is important, it does not take the place of "quantity".

The time we spend with our children is important and should be the best quality we can give them. But time is time ... you MUST spend it to raise children. The quantity of the time is just as important as the quality ... in fact, sometimes it is more important.

As for some of your comments ...
If the keys were not in the ignition,they wouldn't have been able to joyride on it.
The keys not being in the equipment may have stopped them from driving the equipment, but what about the other damage they caused? From what the story reported, they set off fire extinguishers inside vehicles. What other damage was done?

Look at it this way ... if you had some beer in your fridge and came home and found your kid had drunk your beer, would you put all that blame on you because you should not have had beer in the fridge? Or would you expect him to leave it alone because he knows the beer is yours?

Do you hide or lock up your wallet because you don't want him to take your money, or do you expect him to stay out of your wallet?

He should have stayed out of the other the people's equipment. If he had, he would not have known if the keys were in there or not ... and ... he would not be in the trouble he is now in.

You also lamented:
...I probably wasted my time posting on this forum,because everyone seems to already have formed their opinion.
You have also seemed to have formed an opinion ... you are blaming everyone except the boys (and maybe yourself).

I will go so far as this ... if proper values are instilled in your children from the time they are babies on and you set the example of those values, you will have a much better chance of having children that will not make these type of "decisions".

However, if we do not spend time with our children because we are too busy making a living so they can have "stuff" and if they see us doing things that are the opposite of what we have taught them (like cheating on our taxes) they will learn more from what we do then what we tell them.

Oh, and in case you are wondering, YES, I have children. I have four of them and have successfully raised them to be adults. My youngest is 21. None of my children were ever in trouble with the law or have done anything even close to what your son did.

We knew time was needed when we had our children, and we gave them that time. We also had to work and live from paycheck to paycheck, but we still gave them the time and direction needed. We also never blamed others for our shortcomings.

Now, you can decide that all those on here that have agreed that your son was in the wrong have "their" opinion (and yes, I am one who thinks the boys were wrong) and you can continue to blame the mining company, or you can decide that your son is to blame for what he did.

Either way, you and your family now have to live with the consequences and whatever legal action may be taken.

Please don't be mad at all of us because we have opinions as to blame. But, please come back and post the results when this is resolved. Like you said, the news does like to have a "good" story, and they will probably not print the results, especially if the boys are dealt any leniency.
 
   / Boys drive excavator at Pa. mine, smash bulldozer #67  
Maybe I drift off the thread a bit but..........................

As I see it it is all about accountability. We have little to none in this society anymore. The police have little interest and/or manpower and the courts have even less. In years past, the police, knowing that the offense would not go to court, would take the time to scare the parents and the kids with a visit. Now they can't even take the time to take a report from you, you have to file a report on line. Yes manpower, etc., but it is a rapidly moving snowball that gathers speed in the decline of respect for others.

The last generation passes their values to the next and we are losing a little each time. There is no improvement on values anymore. Teachers in school spend less time teaching than they used to because they are having to deal with the kids who have no respect for authority. All to the detriment of the kids that want to learn.

In other threads on TBN about trespassing, I read where some of our larger contributors defend and state that they have ridden ATV and dirt bikes on other people's property and will continue to do so, just because they have for years. They don't see it as wrong or seem to care. How would they feel if you did donuts in their front or back yard or took down their fence and let fido out to get hit in the street. Children see their parents do these things and often accompany them on "family activities" destroying and/or trespassing on other's property and how can they grow up thinking otherwise.

Many on here have voiced the idea of kids will be kids and we did just as bad when we were kids. Does that make it right? Do you justify the actions or do you see ways that a lesson can be learned that you can pass down to your children. Children are like sponges they absorb all around them. They learn from what we say, what we do and what we tolerate from them or others around us.

Think about and evaluate your actions every day and see what kind of example you are setting for your children in everything you do. It is not just the IMPORTANT things that children learn from. Everything they learn is IMPORTANT even the littlest item. ALWAYS set the best example not only to your kids but to everyone around you, even if it makes you work a little bit harder.

The saying of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is in other faiths more properly looked at as "do not do to others what you would not have them do to you." Think about the actual meaning of those two sayings and take the religious aspect and belief out of it.

Live life correctly and show all around you what is truly right.
 
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   / Boys drive excavator at Pa. mine, smash bulldozer #68  
While my son is only 2 1/2 I am pretty sure if he were of thees boys' age and he were to gain unauthorized control of an excavator or dozer the only thing intentionally damaged would be stumps and rocks. I am just saying that because i got my operating skills from my dad, my son will get his from me, and we aren't hard on things or destructive.

That is, if he grows up ideally.

However I'm not one of those who says my kids will never _______, but I can say if my kids _____ they have a size 11 foot to contend with!
 
   / Boys drive excavator at Pa. mine, smash bulldozer #69  
Owwwe" it is rough on this little topic..Child behavior is a tough subject. I for one have had a hard time realizing it is not my place to correct my grandchildren, when the parents are present and see the same infraction. Sooo, cruelty to a child has been redefined, and "Now parents must spare the rod." Ditto for grandparents,,,We are in a HEAP of LEGAL troubles in the good ole USA?
 
   / Boys drive excavator at Pa. mine, smash bulldozer #70  
Owwwe" it is rough on this little topic..Child behavior is a tough subject. I for one have had a hard time realizing it is not my place to correct my grandchildren, when the parents are present and see the same infraction. Sooo, cruelty to a child has been redefined, and "Now parents must spare the rod." Ditto for grandparents,,,We are in a HEAP of LEGAL troubles in the good ole USA?


hehe, my grandparents never had a problem with correcting me...... i respected them more than my folks...they scared me more.
 

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