Boys drive excavator at Pa. mine, smash bulldozer

[crazyal]

I do feel sorry for the parents, it's not always bad parenting that causes children to act badly. The whole family will suffer because of this. Yes they were young but I don't believe for a second that they didn't know that what they were doing was wrong. Just because the keys were left in the machine is hardly a reason to try and shift blame.

What's not being talked about it the mining company? Hopefully this is a large company and were able to afford to replace the dozer quickly. For a small company this could have shut down operations. I've worked for a lot of companies over they years that had about a million tied up in equipment but didn't have the funds to just replace something like this.

I've heard from friends who own businesses who are telling me thanks to the new Dodd Frank law getting loans is much harder. I'm not trying to turn this political, just pointing out thanks to the banking industry and regulations the standards a company must meet to get a loan are higher.

At least these kids didn't see a car with keys in it and decide to go for a ride otherwise people could have been hurt or killed.

 

[5030]

Maybe I drift off the thread a bit but..........................

As I see it it is all about accountability. We have little to none in this society anymore. The police have little interest and/or manpower and the courts have even less. In years past, the police, knowing that the offense would not go to court, would take the time to scare the parents and the kids with a visit. Now they can't even take the time to take a report from you, you have to file a report on line. Yes manpower, etc., but it is a rapidly moving snowball that gathers speed in the decline of respect for others.

The last generation passes their values to the next and we are losing a little each time. There is no improvement on values anymore. Teachers in school spend less time teaching than they used to because they are having to deal with the kids who have no respect for authority. All to the detriment of the kids that want to learn.

In other threads on TBN about trespassing, I read where some of our larger contributors defend and state that they have ridden ATV and dirt bikes on other people's property and will continue to do so, just because they have for years. They don't see it as wrong or seem to care. How would they feel if you did donuts in their front or back yard or took down their fence and let fido out to get hit in the street. Children see their parents do these things and often accompany them on "family activities" destroying and/or trespassing on other's property and how can they grow up thinking otherwise.

Many on here have voiced the idea of kids will be kids and we did just as bad when we were kids. Does that make it right? Do you justify the actions or do you see ways that a lesson can be learned that you can pass down to your children. Children are like sponges they absorb all around them. They learn from what we say, what we do and what we tolerate from them or others around us.

Think about and evaluate your actions every day and see what kind of example you are setting for your children in everything you do. It is not just the IMPORTANT things that children learn from. Everything they learn is IMPORTANT even the littlest item. ALWAYS set the best example not only to your kids but to everyone around you, even if it makes you work a little bit harder.

The saying of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is in other faiths more properly looked at as "do not do to others what you would not have them do to you." Think about the actual meaning of those two sayings and take the religious aspect and belief out of it.

Live life correctly and show all around you what is truly right.

Well put.

Despite my childhood misgivings I feel that I raised my stepson properly. Only once did my stepsonson feel the sting of the belt. It only took one time. He's grown now and I have grandkids. He's a successful attorney and no I don't get loegal advice from him.....:laughing:

It's my take that if any members here want to tresspass on my land, especially planted ground, they would incur the wrath of one of my many accurate long guns. Simply put, you might be out there (on my land) but you'll be leaking all over the place.

 

[padad]

I appreciate your opinions and agree with most all of you.I agree 100% that I have accountability,it's just not as cut and dry as it seems.The thing that set me off and put me into defense mode were the comments wishing harm on the boys.I still can't imagine the person who would say that,even as a bad joke.
I will post follow ups when I can. Hopefully,there can be some good that comes out of this.Thanks to those who provided constructive opinions and well wishes.

 

[JB4310]

Wow this thread went downhill. Some crabby apples

Strictly speaking about the boys and the heavy equipment.
When I was that age, I was all over the place, playing on the train tracks everyday and on every construction site within walking distance. Any industrial building that had the misfortune of leaving a door or window open big enough for a skinny little kid to squeeze thru, we were there.

If it had a lever, a button, a stick, a steering wheel or any other kind of control mechanism We were all over it. We did fire up an old excavator by accident, on a Friday afternoon and it was still running when we checked on it (from a long distance) on Sunday. No (very little) intentional destruction of property, but we were wicked curious.

Poor guy that ran the appliance store must of wondered why every Monday morning his delivery truck's batteries were dead. We played with those power lifts till they wouldn't move anymore :laughing:

My 13 year old will sit inside and play X-box live for hours at a time on a beautiful day. I'm not sure what is worse, that or what we did when we were that age?

JB

 

[Taylortractornut]

The 150K on a dozer is easy now. A D5K is a smaller dozer. Its 2 years old and was 135,000. On a D7 thru 11 or any other sized machine it would be easy to rack up that kind of damage. Its 14K to pu a set of tracks on a D5. Imagine a mine sized dozer thats tripled and Motors and trans missions. I think if they damaged the engine, radiar blade and frame, tracks, a final drive and all the body components would run up a bill fast.


As for the damages that would be unacceptable to pound a machine to peices with it. The only time when I was younger That I ran a peice of equipment. I had permission from the owners.

As for the keys being in the ignition thats a toss up. Accidents happen, it could have been forgotten. Could have been hidden in the machine and found.

As for the insurance on a machine they have liability insurance on the machine to cover damage to other property. At the landfill I manage the only time the machinery is covered by insurance it in ceratain areas of the working face but never insured from damages from each of the other machines.

Think about the hardships that the company has to go through now. 150K to repair a machine that was in good working order to start with. THe operator that out of work as his machine is down unless his boss has another replacement.

As for secureing the site a fence will only keep an honest person out. Whe nthe Landfill was fenced in it almost doubled the entry by others. Chain link pushed up and climbed under, cut, dug under, gates broken. Our 5 strand barbed wire fence cut and crossed over. Even caught 2 kids one weekend I was working on a dozer I had spotted 2 kids crossing the hill draggin pallets from the working face. Interestingly I watched and waited. I called the law and by the time they gotthere we walked up on them. THey had taken the pallets and nailed them together over the fence to make an easier crossing. They had been goin inthe the Landfill and shooting at the dogs, and euipment.

 

[aczlan]

I grew in in the middle of a 200 acre farm. I spent a lot of time "afterhours" looking at the various tractors, attachments and other machines.
I NEVER moved a lever or a switch on them.
Get in the seat, yes. Look at the switches/controls, yes. Move them? Not unless I was specifically directed to by the farmer or one of his people. When they were planting or spraying, I would help run the valves and pumps to load the liquit fertilizer. When they were fixing things, I would be there watching and helping if asked, I know where to find the keys to most of the open station equipment by the time I was 10, but I never tried to use or move any of their equipment without permission.

Why? I know that if I were to do that and be found out, I would be invited not to return and if I had broken something, Dad would have taken me down to the farmers house (kicking and screaming if need be) to apologize and offer to make restitution (which would have probbaly involved me picking rocks by hand until I turned 21).

Now, I have siblings who would take Dad's equipment for a joyride, but again, not someone else's stuff without permission.


Aaron Z

 

[forgeblast]

Live life correctly and show all around you what is truly right.
I like that a lot!

 

[alabama roughneck]

Im am suprised at the comments by some here. You are right in saying they couldnt joy ride if the keys.werent in them BUT if i left my keys in my truck and they joyrode it would you be saying the same? The simple fact is they were trespassing and they broke the law. You can not blame the construction company for your child trespassing. Im not saying your not a good parent because im sure you are an excellent parent. I had great parents and still got into plenty of mischief. We went on a new forrestry road one time about that age and played on equipment. Thankfully nothing happened we. Got away with. My parents would have.beat me stupid if they had known abiut it. I am glad they kids werent injured

 

[schmism]

I see no reason why the boys and/or parents shouldn't be liable for fixing the damage.

No use in arguing good parents, bad parents, good kids, bad kids. The simple fact (that no one is denying) is that the kids did the damage. Seems a reasonable punishment to make them literally pay for the damage they caused.

The above punishment, I should hope, teaches the kids they are responsible for there actions. Actions (like the destruction of property you dont own) has consequences, expensive ones to the tune of fixing the equipment.

 

[forgeblast]

Been thinking about this all night, and trying to put it in the right words.
There are many ways to raise a child. The way that we do is this.
Need vs Want. My child at 2 knows there is a difference between what she needs and what she wants, and it my job(our) to make sure she has what she needs.
Kids need food, shelter, clothing, and love. Kids want everything else. If you give a child everything when they are young, what do they have to look forward to?
What will give them the drive to do better then you have done? (Look at .gov assistance, if you are given everything because you live in poverty, why would you work?)
I also think the best thing we can give children is ourselves, our time.
Our time is worth so much to them, it also means that we as parents have to put some of the things we "want" to do on the backburner so we can give kids what they "need".
As a bow hunter, I have put bowhunting on the backburner for the last 3 years because I could not justify that time away from my daughter. I spend that time with her in the woods, looking at animals, teaching her tracks, etc. My daughter is very observent, loves looking for insects and chasing butterflys. She is also active. I spend a lot of time with her at her swing set, I carve while she swings, or slides.
There is a time that she will not want to spend as much time with us as she does now, but until that time we will be there for her.
Manners are also something that we work on. After ma-ma, and daddy, I think please and thank you were her next.
Board kids are more likely to find something to do. It will be more often then not what you do not want them to do. I have had a job since I was 12, and if you count mowing grass for others then since ten. Having a job as kept me out of a lot of trouble. By working I also learned to save for what I wanted. She will learn that our money is not her money, and that if she wants something she will have to work for it.
It helps us to do all this because my wife and I are on the same page when it comes to raising our kiddo. It took us a long time, a lot of money, and a lot of praying to have our child. We say we went through **** to have an angel. (if anyone needs a good infertilty dr I know a great one, and about 5 horrible ones PM me).
I am sure there is more that I could ramble about, but its early. Value your kids and they will value you.