Starter problems

[Professor Marvel]

I have a NH TC45D that has a starter problem. For several months it clicks once in a while then starts. When it has gotten worse I have cleaned the battery terminal and it would work fine for about a month. I did not think that would work but it did. Now that does not seem to help. I assume I need to take my starter off and get it rebuilt. Any suggestions before I do that?

 

[Fixemall]

Let me share a recent fix I did on a New Holland LX665
Clicking then starting...getting worse by the day.
Cleaned all connections, checked seatbelt safety switches etc...
I installed a new fuel safety solenoid-$58
I installed a new key switch-$43
I installed a new fuel solenoid-$58
Had phone in hand to call customer to tell him that a new $300 starter might be in his future then I thought to load test the battery...mild fail...replaced battery-starts and runs new.
Sometimes I outsmart myself and end up eating some parts, lucky it is a rare exception.

 

[Professor Marvel]

Can I use an inexpensive car battey load tester. What should I expect it to read on a tractor battery?
Thanks

 

[Short Game]

Sounds like what my starter did when the brushes stuck because their slides got rusty. It took some WD-40 to get them loosened. The tractor was a new 2010 that had sat in salt air for most of a year. Got a new one on warranty, but the fix saved me down time.

 

[Fixemall]

Can I use an inexpensive car battey load tester. What should I expect it to read on a tractor battery?
Thanks

I would say it should tell you the story, if it is in the yellow...you need a battery. To confirm try setting your charger to "boost" ...bet it starts with no clicking.

 

[jinman]

Read this thread. There might be some useful info in there for you.

 

[wolc123]

You should be able to easily remove the starter from the tractor. Do that. Next, go to youtube and look how to bench test a starter using a car battery and a pair of jumper cables. My guess is you have a bad starter. If NH uses the same, questionable-quality Bosh starters of that era that JD did, on that size engine, I am fairly sure that will be your problem. The starter on my 2005, JD 4120 went bad over a period of several years with symptoms exactly as you describe. I looked at it as sort of a theft-control device until it finally wouldnt crank at all no matter how long I held the key over or cleaned connections. Rather than fork over about $300 to JD for a new starter, or rebuild the faulty one, I found a new aftermarket one (Powerstrike) from Amazon for around $100. Very easy installation and the tractor has been starting like a champ since I put it in. By the way, JD no longer uses that starter on the 4000-20 series and has updated the part ($300). Some day, if I get real bored, I am going to tear that old starter down and try and figure out the root of the problem. Good luck.

 

[Short Game]

Makes me want to quote my old departed friend, Will Slayton, once again:

"They lost me when they took the hand crank away from us."​

Will saw a lot in his time. He left his family in Minnesota at 14 and got off the train in San Francisco with the smoke still rising from the 1906 fire. I sat nearly every evening by his Lang wood cook stove for some years and heard about some pretty amazing stuff.

 

[jinman]

If NH uses the same, questionable-quality Bosh starters of that era that JD did, on that size engine, I am fairly sure that will be your problem.

New Holland starters are Nippondenso. With weak battery voltage or age, the solenoid may not fully engage. It often causes a fuse to blow or it just doesn't engage enough for the contact to be made to power the starter motor. Often, the starters check fine on the bench, but still have engagement failures from time-to-time. Intermittent problems are killer to troubleshoot. I would say that if the OP goes to the trouble to remove the starter, he should try to disassemble the starter and clean the solenoid contacts while he has it out. If he doesn't want to disassemble it, then it may fail on occasion and the $170 replacement might be the best solution.

 

[Professor Marvel]

Thanks guys
This is exactly the type of help I am looking for.

 

[Professor Marvel]

You should be able to easily remove the starter from the tractor. Do that. Next, go to youtube and look how to bench test a starter using a car battery and a pair of jumper cables. My guess is you have a bad starter. If NH uses the same, questionable-quality Bosh starters of that era that JD did, on that size engine, I am fairly sure that will be your problem. The starter on my 2005, JD 4120 went bad over a period of several years with symptoms exactly as you describe. I looked at it as sort of a theft-control device until it finally wouldnt crank at all no matter how long I held the key over or cleaned connections. Rather than fork over about $300 to JD for a new starter, or rebuild the faulty one, I found a new aftermarket one (Powerstrike) from Amazon for around $100. Very easy installation and the tractor has been starting like a champ since I put it in. By the way, JD no longer uses that starter on the 4000-20 series and has updated the part ($300). Some day, if I get real bored, I am going to tear that old starter down and try and figure out the root of the problem. Good luck.

I cannot find any reference to Powerstrike starters an Amazon. Coulld you help direct me. Thanks for your help

 

[alchemysa]

When it has gotten worse I have cleaned the battery terminal and it would work fine for about a month. I did not think that would work but it did. Now that does not seem to help.

I'd suggest this is a big indicator that it is more likely a connection problem, than a starter problem.

I sure wouldn't be replacing the starter until I'd made sure all connections and the battery are OK. If the battery clamps are the soft lead type that are moulded around the cable, try starting the tractor while someone jiggles the cables near the clamps. You may find there is a bad connection 'inside' the clamp that is not visible, or is not improved by cleaning the connections. You can cut off the old clamps and buy relatively cheap bolt-on clamps. I speak from experience.

 

[wolc123]

I am assuming you have already taken the 5-10 minutes required to remove the (2) bolts and (4) wires that connect the starter to the tractor, and the (5) minutes it took to bench test it, proving with no doubt that it is bad. If you did that, then there is no need to chase an intermittant electrical problem any further, which can take a lot of time. Google your tractor make and model and "starter", see what comes up. I also did not find any reference to powerstrike, but when the $108 dollar unit arrived (from Amazon) that is what was on the tag. Given that my starter only lasted a year or two and a couple hundred hours before it started acting up, the last thing I was going to do was to pay JD 3X for a new replacement. I could care less what brand replacement I got, just as long as it was not an OEM part.

 

[Short Game]

This is what made my starter start clicking and then fail, much as described in the OP:

This was a starter on a new machine that had just sat in the weather for over half a year.

The rusty brush was the bottom one and only about an eighth of an inch of water had pooled around it. If this tractor had been in regular use, I doubt this would have ever happened.

If it's not the battery connection, and it's not the starter, it could be at any of a number of safety interlock switches that affect the starting system as well (something that affected my Cub Cadet for years, until I put in a starter button that bypassed all the interlocks).

So, what happens if you jumper from the battery+ to the solenoid spade clip on the starter? Does that roll the engine over?

 

[Kyle241]

I had the same problem with my '95 Kubota. I replaced the starter solenoid and now it starts up fine.

 

[earljr59]

Interesting posts.I have a 2007 ck25 with only 65 hours on it and have had to hit the key a few times on occasion recently. I hear all the usual ckicking noises, glowplug lights and go out and nothing. So far it has turned over after a few tries. I bought it from a guy I know who lives in town that bought it to to blade drive.He had back surgery and didnt use it much, but always kept it stored out of the weather.Looks new,other than this clicking I really like it.It only had 35 hours on it when I bought it last fall. Have any kioti owners heard of this issue? I wonder if the bobcat issue was the same a s mine,even down to the same starter ?Battery seems fine but is the original. Thanks ,Earl

 

[Short Game]

What happens if you jumper from the battery+ to the solenoid spade clip on the starter?

If the engine rolls over, you have eliminated the starter and solenoid, leaving lots of things, like interlocks, starter switch, bad battery ground. These are all problems I've had.

 

[jinman]

What happens if you jumper from the battery+ to the solenoid spade clip on the starter?

Yikes! That's going to create a big "SPAT!" at the same time as the starter turns. I've done it a few times, but I was prepared. You can also get a quick lesson in welding if you don't make enough contact. I think the actual motor contact is not exposed on many starters. Only the solenoid can make that connection.

 

[Short Game]

Yikes! That's going to create a big "SPAT!" at the same time as the starter turns. I've done it a few times, but I was prepared. You can also get a quick lesson in welding if you don't make enough contact. I think the actual motor contact is not exposed on many starters. Only the solenoid can make that connection.

There are three connections on most starters. Two large lugs with copper or brass nuts holding fat cables, and a spade clip with a small wire. One of the large connections connects to the starter motor, one to the battery+ cable, and the small one (usually a spade clip) connects the electromagnet in the solenoid to the key switch through the safety interlocks (i.e., clutch switch, PTO switch, neutral switch, etc.). When battery+ voltage goes to the spade clip, which is exactly what's supposed to happen when you turn your key to "Start," the solenoid's electromagnet slams a heavy plate across the two connections that come from the two large lugs.

Crossing from the B+ to the spade clip should not make for too big of a "SPAT!" as the impedance of the solenoid will limit the current. I am not calling for bridging the two large lugs. Yes, doing that will create a big spark. What going from B+ to the spade clip will do is bypass all the interlocks. So, be sure the tractor is not in gear when you do it.

Where my previous post was in error, was saying that this test would eliminate a bad ground. A bad battery ground would not be eliminated, so both ends of the ground cable should be checked for good connections. I've had repeated corrosion interrupted ground connections with my old tractor, even when the chassis grounding bolt had not loosened. The bolt had to be removed and the washers and terminal lug cleaned of corrosion. Just loosening and tightening the bolt would restore the connection, but only temporarily.

 

[earljr59]

Thanks for the imput. I just cleaned battery posts and all the starter connections.Good to know about the spade connection for future referance.I will clean it too. Am ready to run it and hope for the best. Thanks guys .:thumbsup: