washers and generators

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Just got power back from Irene yesterday (6 days). Coleman generator worked great. Did everything from freezer,refer,well pump,lights ,coffee,microwave. Will not do washing machine. Maker also advises against running washer with a generator because of uneven voltage or sinewaves. No voltage regulator on generator. Any method someone knows about to run a washing machine with some type of inverter between it and generator?

 

[ayelvington]

Most home generators are high-speed generators that have a lot of distortion on top of poor voltage regulation; I should know, I have one too

Modern front-loading washers have sensitive electronics on their control boards that won't tolerate the poor power quality.

My first question is "how much is this worth to you?" Any solution is going to cost more than going to a laundromat...

If you're adament about having a supply of clean power, then I recommend a hybid system that combines an isolated battery charger, batteries, and the inverter. Integrated inverter/chargers didn't used to condition power when they were connected to a power source, so you might not want to go there.

Since you apparently have Internet access, I suggest that you visit the web site of Home Power Magazine and do some research. Home Power Magazine: Solar | Wind | Water | Design | Build

There are several vendors in RI that might be able to help you out: Business Directory

Best of luck to you!

 

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Thanks Al. If it is this complex or expensive as you infer, it might be a good idea just to do the wash a day or two before the hurricane. Not as much fun or thrilling of being independent but more practical.

 

[zzvyb6]

You apparently have water and soap. What's wrong with a tub of water and some elbow grease? Gonna soften your cuticle? Gonna have to forget the Fabreeze? Don't want to get caught washing your underwear? Or is it just too much work? Maybe you could go to Salvation Army on Friday. Its 5 for $5 day: You can get new stuff and 'donate' the old. Even better would be to donate the old, they will clean and disinfect it, and then you can buy it back the next day!

 

[schmism]

Any method someone knows about to run a washing machine with some type of inverter between it and generator?

a true sign inverter (xantrax) can be bought. there are a number of solar type inverters that will accept a generator input. You might consider adding a small solar system (500-800w) with a 2K watt inverter and running the whole house off the inverter with the generator plugged into the inverter useing the inverter to clean up the output from the genny.

 

[hayden]

There are a shocking number of appliances that don't work on generator power. Your washer, the Splendide washer/drier in my boat and in most large RVs (go figure why an appliance designed to work in an environment typically powered by a generator don't work), a stove that I had to get rid of, my Buderus high-tech, high efficiency boiler, and I'm sure lots more.

The hilarious thing is that all the appliances I've encountered that don't work on gen power work fine off an inverter. I'd expect just the opposite. I just don't understand an electronics designer who creates a circuit that depends on any form of perfection from line power. WTF? And most of these appliances like boilers and stoves are EXACTLY the appliances that we buy generators to keep running when the power goes out. WTF?

 

[ayelvington]

a true sign inverter (xantrax) can be bought. there are a number of solar type inverters that will accept a generator input. You might consider adding a small solar system (500-800w) with a 2K watt inverter and running the whole house off the inverter with the generator plugged into the inverter useing the inverter to clean up the output from the genny.

These are the solutions that need very careful looking at. Xantrax (and others) make very good sine wave inverters that will give you the clean power you need, BUT, that's not to say that they will deliver the same clean power when connected to a generator. Earlier inverter/charger combinations (Trace et al) simply had a transfer switch inside that shifted the load to the AC input and switched into a charging mode.

I strongly recommend that you consult with an energy professional before you drop a dime. A code-compliant design and installation (READ: Safe) is not a trivial undertaking for a lay person.

All of this will not be a trivial expense, so I'm still voting for the laundromat if one is available!

 

[ayelvington]

I just don't understand an electronics designer who creates a circuit that depends on any form of perfection from line power.

I appreciate your frustration, and the honest answer is the never ending quest for efficiency and lower cost of manufacturing. Electronics now start with switching power supplies that are very efficient and have global distribution. The circuit needs to track the incoming power to identify when to switch on and off. A noisy power source is impossible to track for a low-cost (ie. competitively priced) power supply. More expensive supplies directly rectify the incoming power to DC, filter it, and work from that.

You've got me why they put something like that in an RV or a boat. DOH!:drool:

 

[hayden]

A noisy power source is impossible to track for a low-cost (ie. competitively priced) power supply

Just curious - what's the source of noise in a generator? It seems to me that it should produce a perfect sine wave, just like a generator at a hydro plant, steam plant, or other commercial generation source?

 

[ayelvington]

Just curious - what's the source of noise in a generator? It seems to me that it should produce a perfect sine wave, just like a generator at a hydro plant, steam plant, or other commercial generation source?

High speed generators (3600 rpm) are notoriously noisy because of their brushes, regulators (or lack there-of), and low-cost design (single pole)

Commercial generators run much slower because they have multiple poles. They also have power factor correction to match the electrical characteristics of the generator to the power lines and load. No utility could stay in business putting out the kind of power a consumer grade high-speed generator does.

I was an electrical engineering major 20+ years ago, and all of the factor were enlightening since I had worked with generators for quite a while. Brush bounce is worse on a high-speed generator, and there is no power-factor correction to deal with the impact of a lot of switching power supplies.

In short: High speed makes for brush bounce, and lack of regulation makes for overshoot and harmonic distortion.