Buying Advice If you could do it all over again....

[Scotty370]

You are not going to pull stumps with a SCUT. Been there tried that! Stumps are one tuff beast!!!!!!!!!! Hire that task out, and buy a tractor that fits your other needs...My 2/100 of a dollar.........~Scotty

 

[Grandad4]

The average stump size is around 14". I have 6 to remove now and have in my front yard about 20 more I'm considering cutting down. The trees are all Oak and I live on a hill with about a 10 to 20 degree slope. To make things worse, I live in Missouri where they Clay is pretty prevalent.

I do have more time than money and not too worried if it takes a weekend digging out one stump.

Getting the right size of equipment will mean more to being a happy owner and getting your work done than what brand you buy. Others have advised that a little more tractor probably will make your life a whole lot easier, and I agree.

Within the Kubota models, for example, moving up to one of the B series from a BX subcompact puts you into a larger, more capable backhoe more suited to stump removal, while still giving you a reasonably sized machine for your 5 acres.

As for brand, there are many good tractors to choose from. I like the Kubota equipment, which has served me well for a long time, but my life wouldn't be ruined if I had another brand.

 

[Smithrr]

I appreciate all the comments so far...all the info is useful. Thanks to the comments I'm a bit skeptical as to whether the SCUT will suffice.

Here's what I had in mind and what I was looking at but now have doubts about them doing everything I want to do.

1) Cub Cadet SC2450
2) Massey-Furgeson GC2610
3) Kubota BX25
4) John Deere JD2320
5) Kioti CK20SHST

That was the top 5 I was looking at, but I went and looked at the SC2450 on the way home and just really have my doubts about it. So at least it's moving down the list.

So now my question is, if the SCUT is pretty much just a tractor to maintain the land and not to get it in shape, will the CUT suffice? Will that size be able to dig out the stumps? Realizing of course that renting a stump grinder would still be a better option.

Thanks for the education. Being new to the world of tractors, I need your opinions because every sales person has the best tractor in the world.

 

[jenkinsph]

If you want a small tractor I would go with a Deere 2520 or similar sized major brand. I would hire out the stump removal unless you really want a backhoe to play with.

If you have lots of work to do to get the place in shape it will take a while with tractor of this size. To work over 1 acre including clearing and stump removal along with grading tilling and planting a lawn may take three weeks with larger 50 to 60 hp equipment. It can be a shock how much debris you can get from one acre that is about half open land. Five acres can provide intermittent work for years to come. The devil is in the details.

 

[brewdog]

in my opinion, you need to be looking at 35 hp and 2500 lbs of base machine if you are going to tackle 14" dia oak tumps. you should hire it done and do the cleAn up work with the scud. i saw that movie and bought the Tshirt.

 

[tsteahr]

I appreciate all the comments so far...all the info is useful. Thanks to the comments I'm a bit skeptical as to whether the SCUT will suffice.

Here's what I had in mind and what I was looking at but now have doubts about them doing everything I want to do.

1) Cub Cadet SC2450
2) Massey-Furgeson GC2610
3) Kubota BX25
4) John Deere JD2320
5) Kioti CK20SHST

That was the top 5 I was looking at, but I went and looked at the SC2450 on the way home and just really have my doubts about it. So at least it's moving down the list.

So now my question is, if the SCUT is pretty much just a tractor to maintain the land and not to get it in shape, will the CUT suffice? Will that size be able to dig out the stumps? Realizing of course that renting a stump grinder would still be a better option.

Thanks for the education. Being new to the world of tractors, I need your opinions because every sales person has the best tractor in the world.

I can't say I fully agree with this. I have dug a number of stumps with my GC2410. It's not a fast process but it can be done (and without beating up the machine). You will spend lots more time repositioning the machine than you would with a excavator, but with some patience you will get the stumps out. I have not needed to cut the roots with an ax or saw. I have been able to split large roots using the tooth of the bucket. The bucket teeth on the GC are smaller than a BX tooth, but they are a little sharper and I keep nibbling away at the thick roots until I have them split up enough that I can finally rip them free.

Having said that I had a project where I wanted to get rid of 6-8 stumps right away. I rented a good sized stump grinder and got through it in a day. That was enough stump work (and on a tight schedule) to justify renting.

Make no mistake, the BH on a SCUT can do quite a lot of digging. In relation to a mini-ex, the difference between the BH on a SCUT and a 30hp CUT is minimal. Yes, the next size up BH is a little more capable, but there is not that much difference. Look at the specs. Few more inches of reach, a little more breakout force. More is always nice but the differecnce between the BH on a B and a BX is not night and day. There is absolutely no comparison between the digging capability of even a small mini-ex and a CUT BH. As others have said if you want the stumps out quick rent a large stump grinder or a excavator.

That said I agree with others that going up in size is generally a good thing. Except when the bigger machine won't fit in tight spaces the little SCUT will. That's the situation I'm in. I'd love a larger machine (Tim the Tool Man) but the reality is I'd get less done with a bigger machine because I have lots of tight areas.

Based on your earlier statement that you have time to get the stumps out I believe a SCUT could work for you. Lower cost is a advantage of a SCUT. You can get a SCUT TLB for nearly the same cost as a upper B series with just a loader. It is nice to have the little BH. You will find projects for it that you did not even think of prior to having it. Having it on hand means you will use it for lots of little projects that will only take a few minutes, but are far to small to justify renting a machine. Without the BH these little tasks would end up never getting done.

Personally, if I were to move up from a SCUT I would want to have a three range tranny and position control on the 3PH. Low (snail) range is useful for pulling something heavy out of a hole (like a stump) and position control is almost essential for precision box blade work. This would put me into a Bxx30, a JD 3000 series, a MF 1500 series, etc.

So my 2 cents is don't sell the SCUTs short. But if you have the room and money for a bigger machine then by all means go for it. If you are going up then make it worth while and get a three range tranny and 3ph position control. From a cost and efficiency perspective I agree with brewdog. Rent equipment or hire out the stumps then use a scut to do all your landscaping projects.

 

[TripleR]

Don't sell a good SCUT short, just don't ask too much of it. We pay someone to come out and grind stumps as it is a lot easier and cheaper than buying equipment sized to do that well and still fit on our property.

We own primarily Kubotas, but really like the features of the new John Deere 1026R with my only concern being first year production and production delays.

We do have tractors from 23 to 85 HP, but we have a few hundred acres. If I was dealing with 5 or so, my choice would be/is a SCUT in our case a BX2660 and John Deere 2305.

The Kubota B Series and John Deere 2000 Series will work too, I just like the SCUTs for maneuverability and stability. YMMV

 

[fredhargis]

I would read a lot more of the info here. I wasn't aware of some (many) things about tractors and later learned. I would (personally) hold out for a "position control" 3 PH, instead of the thing I now have. I may have also reconsidered the foot pedal arrangements on the various brands. It was only luck, but I got a floating mower deck (which I now know I wanted) instead of "ground contact". There are so many things that a newbie like me doesn't know that I don't believe you can read too much here to learn it. I did get the size about right (my only focus as I was reading), but I would have given the other brands much more consideration had I been better educated.

 

[BethesdaEC]

I would read a lot more of the info here. I wasn't aware of some (many) things about tractors and later learned. I would (personally) hold out for a "position control" 3 PH, instead of the thing I now have. I may have also reconsidered the foot pedal arrangements on the various brands. It was only luck, but I got a floating mower deck (which I now know I wanted) instead of "ground contact". There are so many things that a newbie like me doesn't know that I don't believe you can read too much here to learn it. I did get the size about right (my only focus as I was reading), but I would have given the other brands much more consideration had I been better educated.

I picked up on the position control issue while shopping and did a lot of research on it before purchasing. I am really glad that I did get position control, I can only imagine the pain of a quarter inching value with a BB or the leak down while using it.

 

[YesDeere]

Fred is right. Explore all options. I started out with a 790 and I quickly realized it wasn't enough for some things I wanted to do. Plus I thought no big deal shifting. That was until i drove a hydro. Mowing and loader work is so much better with the hydro. There are only a couple things I wish I had now. Like a belly mower instead of the rear finish mower. Not that big a deal. Also maybe just a couple more hp for going through really high grass. Again not a big deal just slow down a bit. I cannot complain though because I got an excellent deal on it. (bought it from my father) so I'll shut up now.

 

[ChuckinNH]

The scuts are amazing machines for their size. There were times I thought mine wouuld be a little big to mow with ( never tried it), and too small for real tractor work. With patience, and common sense that tractor always surprised me. The backhoe raised the center of gravity enough to make it tippy on rough land (woods), but I never got too tired of walking an area I was going to be working in a bit before just backing into the brush, and start flailiing around with the backhoe. A backhoe on my B2620 would add a half foot of depth, and about 500 pounds of digging force. Putting a backhoe on a larger B Kubota nearly doubles the digging force of a BX, adds 1 1/2' of reach, and depth, and 40 degrees of boom swing, and those numbers are meaningful for digging. If you look around here using the search function you will find lots of photos of "trophy" stumps, and rocks, and I have mine posted here too, but I did learn that doing what is possible with a tractor is much different than doing more what it was designed to do on a regular basis. The backhoe on my BX wouldn't dig ground hard frozen in the middle of winter, but I do have several rocks, and stumps that I dug, and got out of the way with the BX that I can't lift with my LA364 loader on the larger B. Five acres is a lot to clear, stump, and convert to lawn with a scut, but like I tell my Oncologist, "sometimes you just have to go push down a tree". Both the Kubotas I have had have provided me with hours of enjoyment in the process of doing things that just couldn't have been done in my shape without them.

 

[scoutcub]

Interesting thread and responses.
I've done some backhoe digging with a SCUT...., because they're typically very light machines and not very strong hydraulics, it will take awhile but it can be done.
You said you don't mind taking a weekend to dig 1 stump.....that might very well be the case.
I think the property maintenance can be done with a SCUT, the problem boils down to the stumps. Backhoes are expensive, typically 4-6K. Are you going to use it much after the stumps are gone? Or sell it?
Do you want more seat time, (maybe more than you bargained for), or would you rather get the stumps dealt with quickly and move on?
I'd give the rental option some consideration. A mini-ex will move stumps out MUCH quicker. With the blades on them, you can backfill the hole and grade the areas. Also, I would push the trees over with the stump attached, saves a lot of digging.
And, a CUT will be much more capable for digging the stumps.
Any dealers closeby than you can go test out the backhoes? I would highly advise trying one out first, before buying it and discovering it's too small.

All the machines listed are good. I own a SC2400 with a loader, no hoe. I have a backhoe on my bigger Cub, a 32 HP. It is much more capable than a SCUT hoe, I've dug out several stumps with it.

If you've got LOTS of time and really want a SCUT, you could do it. Don't rule out a bigger machine and the rental option. Try some out at the dealers and form some of your own opinions.
I also wouldn't listen to folks that bash an entire line of tractors because of their 1 bad tractor.
Good luck with your search!

 

[Smithrr]

Okay, now I'm considering a SCUT again. I do want to mention I live on the property and can spend as much or as little time as I want. I do mow with my 50" Craftsman GT now, so about 2 acres is clear but has too many trees on it that I want to drop. I have a pond to work around and do have some other digging and landscaping to do.

My property over the past 10 years has developed ruts in the yard do to the slope, so I want to move some earth around. I have a French drain to make to fix an wet issue I have with my driveway. I have a tie wall that is poorly constructed by the previous owners and about to fall down, so I need to tear it down, do a little excavation and build a new wall. I want to level off a area to build a storage unit for my lawn equipment. I'm wanting to expand my deck around the house, so I need to dig holes for the concrete pillars.

So you see I have a lot of work to do and I figure about 15 years to do it in and then I'm downsizing and heading south to warmer weather and enjoy retirement.

The SC2450 was my first choice do to the dealer location and it specs basically the same as the Kubota. The Gc2610 specs a better but the dealer is 50 miles from my house. The Kubota dealer is 35 miles. I realize that I won't or shouldn't need to visit often, but you never know. I don't want to buy junk no matter how convenient though.

You guys are answering many questions and I've been studying the tractors specs for months now....driving the wife crazy.

 

[duckgeek]

I'm a newbie myself, but recently purchased a gently used 1991 JD855 (around 400 hrs) with backhoe and various implements to work my 5.5 acres of hilly land with a mix of pasture, dense fir and a few old growth trees of various species. I mow with a Craftsman GT 46".

My neighbor is a heavy equipment operator who does lots of trenching work for cable pulls. He has a Kubota BX2350. He borrowed my tractor to dig out a couple of stumps and now he has a bit of buyer's remorse and he's looking to find something similar to mine as he really liked the additional weight and stability of the 855, though our HP ratings are very similar.

I'm very happy with my purchase. I looked hard at the SCUT options, but found myself leaning towards a Mahindra 3016 (which I thought appeared to be a better bargain) before I came across the 855 package deal.

 

[scoutcub]

One thing I forgot to mention is slopes.....which you said existed on your property. I've also got some very slopey property, and I feel MUCH more comfortable with the SCUT than my other larger compacts. You give up some ground clearance, but the lower CG really feels more comfortable on the slopes.
Talked to a few guys with the SC2450, they really like it.

 

[donn12]

i would definitely go with a BX or Deere for resale. I am sure the sales numbers of these two dwarf everything else in that price range so naturally there would be more used buyers.
I decided to upgrade after a couple of years and had no problem selling my BX24. I also have a BH on the new one but I have rented a mini ex twice to do the stumps about 14" and up. The first few 8" stumps were the most fun I ever had but when a bigger one wont budge for a few hours it wore off fast!

 

[TripleR]

Okay, now I'm considering a SCUT again. I do want to mention I live on the property and can spend as much or as little time as I want. I do mow with my 50" Craftsman GT now, so about 2 acres is clear but has too many trees on it that I want to drop. I have a pond to work around and do have some other digging and landscaping to do.

My property over the past 10 years has developed ruts in the yard do to the slope, so I want to move some earth around. I have a French drain to make to fix an wet issue I have with my driveway. I have a tie wall that is poorly constructed by the previous owners and about to fall down, so I need to tear it down, do a little excavation and build a new wall. I want to level off a area to build a storage unit for my lawn equipment. I'm wanting to expand my deck around the house, so I need to dig holes for the concrete pillars.

So you see I have a lot of work to do and I figure about 15 years to do it in and then I'm downsizing and heading south to warmer weather and enjoy retirement.

The SC2450 was my first choice do to the dealer location and it specs basically the same as the Kubota. The Gc2610 specs a better but the dealer is 50 miles from my house. The Kubota dealer is 35 miles. I realize that I won't or shouldn't need to visit often, but you never know. I don't want to buy junk no matter how convenient though.

You guys are answering many questions and I've been studying the tractors specs for months now....driving the wife crazy.

I can certainly see why you are having difficulty choosing. I have mentioned on here going to buy a bigger tractor and coming home with a smaller one and going to buy a smaller one and coming home with one much bigger, both turned out to be the right choice, but it took a long time to come to that point.

I have no doubt that a SCUT will do all you say you want to do, but you are getting right on the borderline as to production time. Believe it or not, "seat time" can actually turn into something that strongly resemble work given enough of it. I love operating tractors, but several times a year I will spend six or seven straight days on different tractors and by the time I am finished, I have pretty much had enough for a while.

As has been said on here before, you "can" do everything you need done with a shovel and wheel barrow, so it is not a matter of what can be done, but what is going to be the "best" for your purposes.

As I have said before, we love our BX2660 SCUT, but with the amount of dirt work you have in store, I personally would be looking at something a little bigger such as a Kubota B3030/3000 or its equivalent in John Deere, Kioti/Bobcat, Massey Ferguson etc.

For improved stability, you can often add rear wheel spacers.

I apologize if I have only muddied the waters so to speak.

 

[aebsmithcreek]

property wise and tractor savy wise me and you are in simular situations. i had the same needs with some heavy clearing to boot, when i began shopping i was just as confused as you but because of price and financing options i had settled on a JD in the 24-25 HP range. while sitting in the show room while the salesman was working on the final contract i'm lookin out the window at this rig and finally told the salesman to stop before i wasted anymore of his time. he looked up like he was shot:laughing:, i told him to write up a used 5105MFWD with a 521 loader he had shown me. i have cleared about 2-1/2 to 3 acres with it dug up countless lightered stumps and dug up a long leaf pine stump that was atleast 24 inches with about 7 feet of the tap root . no back hoe just the loader. like someone else said here most of getting a stump up is getting the roots cut. it was slow going compared to a hoe but like you it was my property and i had the time. now a year later that 5105 is a little bigger than i need and i actually had all intention of down sizing up until very recently but i am afraid a smaller tractor would just never satisfy me now that i am used to this tractor, i literally chained off high and pulled 8 and 10m inch pine trees over and out of the ground. IF I HAD IT TO DO ALL OVER AGAIN? i would buy a simular tractor but in the 30 to 40 horsepower range. i think that would give you plenty of tractor that you wouldnt out grow even on five acres. if you have time and and will only use it on your own property i dont think i would spend the money on a hoe, you can drag water line with a scarifier and trench with a middle buster, i just cant picture the average home owner getting there money back from a hoe unless there building ponds or something like that. trust me when i say i am one of the most inept folks you could ever see with a tractor and if i can do it with a loader anybody can, and filling the holes is 3/4 of the fun when your still learning to operate it, helps ya learn how to feather and grade.:thumbsup:
i'm a rank amature so keep that in mind but thats been my experience and the above are my opinions base on this experience, that and fifty cents will get me a coke.....in some places:laughing:

Good Luck!!!!

earl.

 

[foggy1111]

I have read parts of this thread over the past few days. You WANT to own a SCUT....and for much of your work this MAY be the right choice. But....when it comes to stumps....IMO you need to rent a different peice of equipment or hire it done. To me....digging out large numbers of stumps with a SCUT and a smalll hoe is going to be a stretch.

Flame me if you like...but small tractors and backhoes are not suited to do big stump projects.

Me?....I grind em out. Poof...they are gone!

 

[Smithrr]

I have read parts of this thread over the past few days. You WANT to own a SCUT....and for much of your work this MAY be the right choice. But....when it comes to stumps....IMO you need to rent a different peice of equipment or hire it done. To me....digging out large numbers of stumps with a SCUT and a smalll hoe is going to be a stretch.

Flame me if you like...but small tractors and backhoes are not suited to do big stump projects.

Me?....I grind em out. Poof...they are gone!

You might get some people that would flame you, but that's not my style. I asked for opinions and that's what you gave. Why would I flame you for that. I hope I didn't ruin your plans since you appear to be prepared for it.

Yes, I'm leaning towards the SCUT simply because I don't think I need a larger one. I'm not saying there aren't things that a larger one would be more suited for...of course. Actually, with the number of trees I want to take down, I should probably get a dozer out here to push them over.

You can read through threads here and find people that say they have difficulty with digging out a 8 inch stump and others say they have no problem digging out a 30 inch stump. I think it just depends on the mind set at the time, your ground and just how much patience you have.

Like I said previously, I don't care if it took me a weekend to dig out a stump...actually, I could care less if it took a year, however then the fuel costs would have to be considered.

So, SCUT, yeah, that's what I'm going to get new or buy a larger tractor if I can find a good deal. I'm not ready to spend 30K on a tractor. I was thinking in the lines of around 20K.

I was thinking of a SC2450 because they quoted me 17K for it and 0% financing, but now that tractor was sold and now it's supposed to be 18.5K. With that price and being the same price as a Kubota, I'll be looking at them. And while I'm at the Kubota dealer, there is a John Deere dealer near it, so I'll be looking at them. Spec wise, I'd rather have the Massey, but they are not remotely close enough to me to even look at one.

So, with everything said in this thread, and I appreciate all of it, I agree, if I want to get the job done quickly, get a larger tractor. Probably a 35 hp or more. Heck, just hire some professionals to do the job quicker yet.

If I want something to tinker with and eventually get the job done, I'll stick with the SCUT. It will do most of the jobs I want to do and do them well. Some of the jobs it might not do and some it may eventually get done.

I've been reading a lot of posts about the SCUT's I'm considering and larger, however pricing the CUTs and larger gets to be pretty pricey for what will become a landscaping tractor for 5 acres.

So, if you have any insight about SCUTs or information or things to watch out for, I would still appreciate any input. There is a lot of information here that I'm still reading too.