Stick welder vs. Oxy/Acetylene???

[George2615]

All excellent advice. I have 3 means for welding. Oxy/Acetylene, 10KW welder/generator, and a 220V Mig. Each has its own uses. The stick welder I use for 1/4"-1/2" thicker metal welding. Mig for thinner metals. and the O/A for brazing and welding thin metal and as a cutting torch.

 

[flusher]

I'm not ready to buy yet, but I am starting my research.

I'm worried I do not have good enough power, nor is there a space in/near the house I'd feel safe welding, so a stick welder seems not for me.

But there are many negatives to tank welders also.

So, which is better and why? :confused2:

Thanks in advance,

David

Gas welders are nice since they're very portable. Stick welders are portable if you have a portable electric power source to run them.

My advice: build yourself a nice shop with 220V/50 amp service installed and then get yourself a good AC/DC stick welder (mine is a Hobart Stickmate LX from Tractor Supply- $400). Get 10 lb of 7014 and 7024 drag rods to learn how to weld effectively. Then you can tackle some of the more difficult rods like 6011 and 7018.

 

[rankrank1]

All welders and tools have there place and areas where they excel, but for me tool #1 in a primitive metal working shop is a buzzbox stick welder.

My advice: Start searching Craigslist for a Lincoln AC 225 (some have DC125 which is even better), Miller Thunderbolt 225 (Some have DC 150 which is even better), or a Hobart Stickmate 225 (Some have DC 160 which is even better). An AC only welder will sell for $125-$150 used or less. Models with DC will cost $225-$275 used but worth it if you can swing it. Any of these models rarely break and will still be working for your grandkids.

One you have the trusty buzzbox then pick yourself up 90 feet of 3 wire 10 guage SO or SJ type extension cord and plug it into your range receptacle for now - or you can add a circuit. You can reference the Lincoln manual yourself and see it is okay to run the welder up to 90 feet off of 10 guage wire if you choose not to believe me. 90' will give you plenty of length to weld in the yard (which is where I do all my welding). Stick welding also shines in welding outside where welding with MIG and shielding gas does not work well in windy condtions. Consumables for stick are none whereas with MIG they really add up.

A buzzbox welder is about the cheapest tool you can have in a primitive metal working/welding shop. Really the only thing it can NOT do is weld metal thinner than about 16 gauge. Will it always be the best choice for a given application - maybe not but it can do it and do it cheaply. It is more versatile than a simple welder alone as as it can do much more than weld:
a) As stated the buzzbox can weld metal 1/16" thick and thicker metal easily.
b) It is also a primitive cutting tool - throw some 6011 in the stinger and crank the amps up and you have a way to cut metal or pierce holes in metal cheaply. Cuts will not be plasma quality but hey we are talking cheap here.
c) Make or Buy a Twin Carbon Arc torch and you have a way to intensely heat metal very hot for bending, loosening frozen parts, brazing, silver soldering, flame fill weld, etc. (Actually Twin Carbon Arc can potentially up to 1000 Degrees hotter than oxy/acetylene but it will NOT cut metal like oxy/acet can). And Twin Carbon Arc will do it for the mere cost of electricity which is peanuts compared to buying/leasing tanks and buying acetylene.
d) You can even stick weld aluminum in a pinch too.
e) If you get a DC buzzbox then it is even possible to add a budget TIG torch for scratch start Tig but it will require buying an argon bottle and regulator too.

For as little as a mere $125 investment you have a very versatile tool that will never depreciate any further. The same buzzbox that you buy used today For $125 or so will still be worth $125 or more 10 years from now as I said they rarely break. While a buzzbox is not the ideal tool for a pro level shop they are very hard to beat for a backyard shop especially on a per dollar invested basis. (In comparison: Please show me how much work you can do with a mere $125 towards oxy/acet?).

Here is Link to a condensed an informative Twin Carbon Arc thread that I have posted several reference links within.

Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders

 

[evo803]

I had all three things O/A ,mig and stick and sold the stick welder to fund the purchase of a plasma. I found the stick welder sitting idle because given the choice I would chose the MIG , even on stuff over 1/4" . That is my personal preference.

Also check with your homeowners insurance I had to store my tanks in an out building 25' away from my house to be in compliance.

 

[deereman75]

All welders and tools have there place and areas where they excel, but for me tool #1 in a primitive metal working shop is a buzzbox stick welder.

My advice: Start searching Craigslist for a Lincoln AC 225 (some have DC125 which is even better), Miller Thunderbolt 225 (Some have DC 150 which is even better), or a Hobart Handler 225 (Some have DC 160 which is even better). An AC only welder will sell for $125-$150 used or less. Models with DC will cost $225-$275 used but worth it if you can swing it. Any of these models rarely break and will still be working for your grandkids.

One you have the trusty buzzbox then pick yourself up 90 feet of 3 wire 10 guage SO or SJ type extension cord and plug it into your range receptacle for now - or you can add a circuit. You can reference the Lincoln manual yourself and see it is okay to run the welder up to 90 feet off of 10 guage wire if you choose not to believe me. 90' will give you plenty of length to weld in the yard (which is where I do all my welding). Stick welding also shines in welding outside where welding with MIG and shielding gas does not work well in windy condtions. Consumables for stick are none whereas with MIG they really add up.

A buzzbox welder is about the cheapest tool you can have in a primitive metal working/welding shop. Really the only thing it can NOT do is weld metal thinner than about 16 gauge. Will it always be the best choice for a given application - maybe not but it can do it and do it cheaply. It is more versatile than a simple welder alone as as it can do much more than weld:
a) As stated the buzzbox can weld metal 1/16" thick and thicker metal easily.
b) It is also a primitive cutting tool - throw some 6011 in the stinger and crank the amps up and you have a way to cut metal or pierce holes in metal cheaply. Cuts will not be plasma quality but hey we are talking cheap here.
c) Make or Buy a Twin Carbon Arc torch and you have a way to intensely heat metal very hot for bending, loosening frozen parts, brazing, silver soldering, flame fill weld, etc. (Actually Twin Carbon Arc can potentially up to 1000 Degrees hotter than oxy/acetylene but it will NOT cut metal like oxy/acet can). And Twin Carbon Arc will do it for the mere cost of electricity which is peanuts compared to buying/leasing tanks and buying acetylene.
d) You can even stick weld aluminum in a pinch too.
e) If you get a DC buzzbox then it is even possible to add a budget TIG torch for scratch start Tig but it will require buying an argon bottle and regulator too.

For as little as a mere $125 investment you have a very versatile tool that will never depreciate any further. The same buzzbox that you buy used today For $125 or so will still be worth $125 or more 10 years from now as I said they rarely break. While a buzzbox is not the ideal tool for a pro level shop they are very hard to beat for a backyard shop especially on a per dollar invested basis. (In comparison: Please show me how much work you can do with a mere $125 towards oxy/acet?).

Here is Link to a condensed an informative Twin Carbon Arc thread that I have posted several reference links within.

Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders

The other day I tried cutting with a 6011 rod in my tombstone, and it looked like I had cut it with a welding tp on the O/A torch, and it set part of my lawn on fire. I LOVE my old tombstone, but would I choose it over my O/A torch, no way.

 

[rankrank1]

The other day I tried cutting with a 6011 rod in my tombstone, and it looked like I had cut it with a welding tp on the O/A torch, and it set part of my lawn on fire. I LOVE my old tombstone, but would I choose it over my O/A torch, no way.

Reread my post - I clearly said that the buzzbox will not always be the ideal best tool for a given application, but it can do it and do it cheaply. We are talking a mere $125 investment (that will never depreciate any further) here compared to $1000 or more for a set of torches, tanks, and gas. I have a Mig welder too (nearly $800 or more tied up in that), but it is a much less versatile tool than my buzzbox. The mig works great on clean thin metal when used inside and thats it - dirty metal forget it. Using Flux core it works okay outside on thinner stuff but still has to be clean metal. I can not cut with the Mig welder nor can I heat metal with the MIG and also have to buy consumables that really add up like gun liners, tips, gas when MIG mode, or pay a premium for expensive flux core welding wire when not using gas.

For some people owning a torch makes fiscal sense. For infrequent users like me it did not. I mothballed my old Smith torch when my tank lease expired. Considered buying my own bottles, but you will still pay a premium in inspection fees and the refills are pricey. Got tired of paying the expensive fees and the gas just kept skyrocketing. I have not missed it one bit (acetylene is scary stuff anyway). I can accomplish everything that I need to do with the buzzbox for nearly free. If I ever get hard up for money, my buzzbox will be the last piece of equipment to go as it is so versatile and cheap to use in any mode and it will never depreciate below what I paid for it used.

As for improving your cuts with 6011 - refer to the Lincoln owners manual. The recommended technique to use for cutting is in there and much different than a welding technique. That said, even the best cuts from a buzzbox will never match the cuts from a torch or a plasma which are simply better tools for a cutting job albeit pricey tools. I personally do not need the absolute best tool as an infrequent user. An infrequent user like me needs something that is cheap to own, cheap to operate, and rarely ever breaks, and has abolutely zero maintenance or storage issues. A buzzbox fills this need nicely for me - your results may vary.

 

[tcartwri]

I agree, the best way to start out is a used buzz box. The only thing I use gas for anymore is to loosen rusted fasteners.

A chop saw is also a very handy tool.

 

[Short Game]

The only thing I use gas for anymore is to loosen rusted fasteners.

And there is that too, the old acetylene wrench!

===========================

If it weren't for cutting curved lines, and all the many things I can fix with brazing, I could probably live without my O/A. I have a forge, but it is so easy to put on that rosebud for anything that is fairly small, so I do some heating with the torch too.

The years I spent with only O/A (and no electricity) are behind me. I had access for some years to an AC/DC Miller, and when that option went away, well, I just knew it was worth it even to spring for a new one. 6011 is pretty much all I've ever used. I used some nickel to fix a great vice that was on its way to the recyclers. I didn't know what I was doing but that was 8 years ago and I'm still using that great vice.

So David, if it's an either/or situation, I'd do what I could to jump to the next level. I'd not want to be without my tanks/torches or my stick welder. I would think that all my neighbors whose stuff I keep working would agree if they understood how old Bob keeps 'em running.

 

[rankrank1]

I agree, the best way to start out is a used buzz box. The only thing I use gas for anymore is to loosen rusted fasteners.

A chop saw is also a very handy tool.

Make or buy yourself a Twin Carbon arc torch for that buzzbox and you can easily free those rusted fastners. Best part is that you even have 2 modes of operation to free those fastners for the mere cheap cost of electricity.

a) option 1 is to use a conventional flame From the Twin Carbon arc torch to heat the fastner similar to how you would heat the fastner if using oxy/acetleyene.
b) Option 2 is to touch the 2 rods to the rusted fastner (with welder off) then have an assistant flip the welder on. The nut will heat up without a flame through convection which is helpful in preventing damage to sensitive paint areas. Have the assistant turn welder off when temp is reached.

I have a chop saw. Chops saws are handy if you plan to build larger projects from scratch, but they are worthless for most repair based work. I would skip the chopsaw in a budget based shop. I like my chopsaw, but I could easily get by without it if I had to. For repair work a 4 1/2" grinder with a cut-off wheel is much more handy and indispensable - can both cut or grind with it by changing the wheel. Next up would be a sawz-all (useful for woodwork/carpentry too). 3rd choice is then the chopsaw.

 

[kaferhaus]

It can't be harder to see than trying to see what's happening under a mig gun.. I'm new at mig, but man, I'm sticking my face way too close, trying to look under there..

The gun is supposed to be held at an angle... if you can't see, you're doing something horribly wrong....