Pole barn sub panel

[mx842]

You don't use copper on service or sub service feeders. Aluminum is 1/4 the cost. You wont find that at the box stores, you'll have to go to an electrical supply company.

Ok, that makes sense from a cost stand point but don't you have to go bigger if you use Aluminum? You are right about the box stores not having much because all I have found there is the house trailer buried wire which is 2,2,2,1 and from their chart is only good for 75 amps I think.

Thinking back to a few years ago I had rented a storage lot that was shared by a large electrical contractor. There was hundreds of rolls of service wire piled up all over the place that were brought for different jobs and never used. When things would get slow the boss would get his men to go to the yard and cut this stuff up in 3' pieces and strip it then haul it to the salvage yard. He used the money for the big Christmas party he had every year.

He told me if I ever needed anything to just get it but let him know what I got so he could keep track of it. Now I wish I was still there because this would take care of what sounds like a major expense I really had not put much thought in to.

 

[Gizmo2]

I used 6 aluminum for a 50 amp service and 2" schedule 80 conduit. Need schedule 80 here where it comes above grade so I just bought all schedule 80.

 

[tcartwri]

Ok, that makes sense from a cost stand point but don't you have to go bigger if you use Aluminum? .

You generally have to up one wire size. Still winds up being way cheaper.

This is a voltage drop calculator from a Canadian supplier. US code is very similar to ours, so it will give you a good ballpark. They also have a price list for download, which is generally 10% higher than what you would really pay.

Voltage Drop Calculator - Nexans

 

[ultrarunner]

grsthegreat....

I really appreciate your informative posts...

It is very helpful having someone knowledgeable willing to share...

The brother of a friend is clearing out the old family homestead and asked if I could use a coil of service drop aluminum cable... it is one bare and two insulated wires and the about 3' high.

His Grandfather used the material to run power to the well pump and outbuildings.

With everything going underground, is there much use for this?

 

[grsthegreat]

grsthegreat....

I really appreciate your informative posts...

It is very helpful having someone knowledgeable willing to share...

The brother of a friend is clearing out the old family homestead and asked if I could use a coil of service drop aluminum cable... it is one bare and two insulated wires and the about 3' high.

His Grandfather used the material to run power to the well pump and outbuildings.

With everything going underground, is there much use for this?

man, ive been an electrician for 30+ years, and i can count on one hand how many overhead runs ive personally installed. Utility companies do the drop services here, and the only reason i would need overhead wire would be if someone wanted to run overhead to an outbuilding....which no one does. Snow loads, trees and just uglyness of the stuff makes everyone want to go underground.

That wire is not rated for underground use.

Just a note, the 2/2/2/1 IS rated for 100 amps for a service. But for 200 feet or more we generally use 1/0 wire to prevent voltage drop, and its not that much more $$$.

4/0 URD tristed wire at my wholesale house is running $ 1.92 per foot. So 200 foot run will cost about $384 bucks or so (wholesale). Not sure how your prices would run, but its not too expensive. Just as a joke i had them price out the copper......ready .... Combined price with reduced neutral = $ 9.43 / foot x 200 feet = $ 1,886.00 for the run.

way more than 4 x the cost...more like 5 times the cost.

Just thought youd like to know. Also, if you use copper tell me where you live so i can come and dig it up and strip it to sell :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

 

[mx842]

man, ive been an electrician for 30+ years, and i can count on one hand how many overhead runs ive personally installed. Utility companies do the drop services here, and the only reason i would need overhead wire would be if someone wanted to run overhead to an outbuilding....which no one does. Snow loads, trees and just uglyness of the stuff makes everyone want to go underground.

That wire is not rated for underground use.

Just a note, the 2/2/2/1 IS rated for 100 amps for a service. But for 200 feet or more we generally use 1/0 wire to prevent voltage drop, and its not that much more $$$.

4/0 URD tristed wire at my wholesale house is running $ 1.92 per foot. So 200 foot run will cost about $384 bucks or so (wholesale). Not sure how your prices would run, but its not too expensive. Just as a joke i had them price out the copper......ready .... Combined price with reduced neutral = $ 9.43 / foot x 200 feet = $ 1,886.00 for the run.

way more than 4 x the cost...more like 5 times the cost.

Just thought youd like to know. Also, if you use copper tell me where you live so i can come and dig it up and strip it to sell :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Nawhhhhh....I think I will keep that a secret if'n ya don't mind. Speaking of selling copper wire. I tore down an old building years ago and before I did I salvaged everything I could before I took the bull dozer and knocked the building down. I got almost 1500' of 3/0 copper 3 strand with a #1 ground wire. I kept that stuff for years thinking I would be able to use it one day. Well one day I fell on some hard times and took it to the scrap yard and at that time it was only bringing .60 cents a pound and by the time the crook at the scales got finished I took out of there $215.00. I knew I had got robbed even at .60 cents a pound but I needed the money and some money was better than no money. I sure do wish I had it now.

 

[grsthegreat]

Nawhhhhh....I think I will keep that a secret if'n ya don't mind. Speaking of selling copper wire. I tore down an old building years ago and before I did I salvaged everything I could before I took the bull dozer and knocked the building down. I got almost 1500' of 3/0 copper 3 strand with a #1 ground wire. I kept that stuff for years thinking I would be able to use it one day. Well one day I fell on some hard times and took it to the scrap yard and at that time it was only bringing .60 cents a pound and by the time the crook at the scales got finished I took out of there $215.00. I knew I had got robbed even at .60 cents a pound but I needed the money and some money was better than no money. I sure do wish I had it now.

ya, you got robbed alrignt. i hate some of these scrap yards around me. I finally found one place that allows me to verify scale accuracy before they weigh using a gallon jug of water (known weight) or a set of marked weights they have there. The last time i scrapped out my wire pile, i striped it all (have a striping tool that makes short work of it) and i weighed it at home. I took it in ad their weights were within a few pounds of mine..so all was well. And i took home aprox $2,400 in cash. Mind you copper was in the $2.20 -$2.40 per pound range

 

[bearcreek paul]

Ok from what advise I have received.
1 I will need a bigger box with main breaker since this box only has six spaces.
2 extend conduit into box.
3 1 ground rod 8 ft long.
If you think of any thing I missed let me know.The wife and I have to pull our camper back from cape may this weekend,so I won't
be starting until 9/27/11 on the fixes. Thank you.

 

[Gizmo2]

Ok from what advise I have received.
1 I will need a bigger box with main breaker since this box only has six spaces.

Can you use 2 of the spaces for a main? It would leave you with up to 8, 120v circuits left.

 

[grsthegreat]

Can you use 2 of the spaces for a main? It would leave you with up to 8, 120v circuits left.

Judging by the picture, that panel can only handle 6 breakers (i dnt think the bus is broken to allow for mini twin breakers on those small panels). You can use a 2 pole breaker as a main breaker, then have 4 remaining spaces. If you only want a few lights and maybe a welder outlet, it will work just fine.

Personally, i can get a 12/16 space panel for about $40.00 so i never mess with these small panels. And to be totally legal (if you care at all) youll need a breaker retainer bracket to set the main breaker inplace. Its a plastic support piece and a screw to force the main breaker to remain in place so it cant be accidently pulled out of the panel while still live. Doing so could hurt/kill someone.