Help! It won't shut off!

[EyeDigU]

1996 New Holland LX-665 skidsteer bought new (I'm the only owner). Several years ago developed a problem when cold only (30* F and snowing). Machine started but the starter stayed engaged. Shut machine off but starter kept turning (great battery). If while running, I jerked the controls a bit the starter disengaged and I could use the machine. As long as it was warmed up, it was ok. Warm weather was not a problem either.
Problem began to creep into cooler weather and it's a 100% routine, now. New (Rebuilt) starter did not remedy the issue, even when a new coil was installed in the starter (it is actually a Mitsubishi unit) during a complete rebuild. I've checked a ton but no one knows what to do. I'm betting that at least someone here does. I'm listening.

Thank you,

EyeDigU

 

[barbqranch]

I don't know about this particular machine, but most engines have a separate solenoid (big relay) that control the current to the starter. If this machine does, it sounds like that is the problem. A relatively easy test would be to mount a 12 volt lamp across the starter terminals. Should be off except when you are trying to start. If it stays on, then the problem is not the starter but rather the solenoid supplying power to it.

 

[EyeDigU]

Will do and report back. I'm far from the best with electrics, but I can proceed slowly and carefully. The rebuild shop (great guys) took my old one apart and it had melted the coil and the wire bobbin (that's bad).
If anyone else has ideas please drop a line as I need to check all potential contributing factors and not just the first bad one.

Thanks everyone,

EyeDigU

 

[Jerry/MT]

Will do and report back. I'm far from the best with electrics, but I can proceed slowly and carefully. The rebuild shop (great guys) took my old one apart and it had melted the coil and the wire bobbin (that's bad).
If anyone else has ideas please drop a line as I need to check all potential contributing factors and not just the first bad one.

Thanks everyone,

EyeDigU

The starter circuit includes the keyswitch and some safety switches that make the connection to the starter solenoid which maybe integral to the starter motor or a separate unit attached to the starter itself. When the key is in the start position and the saefty switches are closed, power is supplied to solenoid which pulls together some contacts that connect the battery directly to the starter. When the key is released from the starting position, it is spring loaded to the run position and the power to the solenoid is removed allowing a spring to open the circuit between the battery and the starter.


In your case, either the spring in the solenoid is too weak to open the contacts or the moving part that is attached to the main power contacts (the armature is what I believe it is called) was sticking( contacts could also have welded closed ) and not allowing the circuit to the starter to open.

There is also the possibility that the key switch is not returning to the run position or is shorted internally or externally. Your starter rebuiler should have taken care of the former problem and you'll have to troubleshoot the key switch to see if it's faulty. See if there is battery voltage at the solenoid terminal (the one with the small wire) with the key in the run position. If there is then see if the wires between those connections on the switch are touching. if not, replace the switch.

 

[EyeDigU]

Will do this also and check for frayed/overheated/damaged wiring. Will report back when completed with all work.

Thank you,

EyeDigU

 

[mike10]

Under the fuse panel in the engine compartment are two relays. They have plastic covers over them. The relay closest to the boom is the start relay, the other one is the cold start relay. That is where I would start my search for the problem.

You should always have power at one of the large terminals. When the ingnition switch is turned to start, power is sent to one of the small termianls. This energizes the relay and completes the circuit to between the two large posts. When the starter is not disengaging check all four of the terminals on the relay to see where power is present. Power should be present only on the one large terminal. If you have power at only the two large posts than the relay is bad. If you have power at three posts then there is a problem farther upstream in the starting circuit.

 

[EyeDigU]

Mike10,

Thanks for this important info. I called a very good New Holland dealer (Smiths) today who asked me to call early tomorrow and speak with 2 service reps about the relay issue. With your info and some help from them, I trust I'll get this done. I just hope it doesn't go further upstream as my electric paddle is not the best!

Thanks again!

EyeDigU

 

[EyeDigU]

I tested the 2 relays and clearly found one to be defective. Pulled both, had them tested by the rebuilder who cofirmed what I had found. Replaced both and everything works perfect (as of now). Another problem has surfaced, but I'll do a seperate post after researching it.
Thank you to everyone for your input and help in this undertaking.

EyeDigU