Finish mower bagger.

   / Finish mower bagger. #1  

Taylortractornut

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Location
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Im using alot of compost on my garden and need better way to gather the grass and weeds and leaves from my lawn. I remember back when I was a kid dad had an old snapper mower with a bagger on back. I dont have a rider but I have a 5 foot kk finishing mower. My biggest question is would a finish mower have enough lift to fill a bagger. I replentish the lost nitrogen with manure and weedy compost and comost tea.

I m thinking about mounting my bagger on top of the mowers deck.
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #2  
No reason you can't fab something up. Generally a finish mower is designed to have some lift in the cutting zone, usually blowing the air either out the back or the sides, this will help a bagger work better. You might need a big fan to help with the bagging and then you'll need a bag large enough to filter the air and not have to stop to empty ever twenty feet.


Mr. HE:cool:
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #3  
I tried to get my Bush Hog ATH-720 finish mower to blow grass to a trailing cart with only the wind from the blades. It failed and I gave up.
 
   / Finish mower bagger.
  • Thread Starter
#5  
I Renze I cant see where Ill be wasting fuel time and money. I ll have to mow, I have to mow with a tractor and I want the grass for the composting bins for my market gardens.


I dont want it to blow into a trailer I know I dont have enough lift for that. Dad used th have an old Snapper mower that had a bagger on back. It was about 40 gallon capacity lifting it about 2 feet up. I have a special tank that is about the same capacit and really flat. It also has air holes in it. If i can get the grass to lift up 18 inches I might can make it work.
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #6  
Buy one with a mulching deck. It will turn to compost without waste of fuel, money and time.


A mulching mower will burn a third to half again as much fuel compared to a bagger just to match area per hour. Bagging takes about 5-10% more fuel over side discharge, side discharge being the fastest and using the least fuel of all the mowing options.

There are other benefits to bagging and mulching, it is not only a time or fuel equation.



Mr. HE:cool:
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #7  
A mulching mower will burn a third to half again as much fuel compared to a bagger just to match area per hour.
Any numbers to substantiate this claim please ??
For bush hogging tall overgrowth this will be true, but for lawn that is cut every week, i doubt it...

I replentish the lost nitrogen with manure and weedy compost and comost tea.
You could use these nutrients directly on your market gardens without the detour via the lawn.. Even the weed seeds in the compost will get there via the lawn.
But anyways, i understand you want to do this out of idealism...
So, i shouldnt muddle the debate with pragmatics :)
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #8  
Any numbers to substantiate this claim please ??
For bush hogging tall overgrowth this will be true, but for lawn that is cut every week, i doubt it...

You could use these nutrients directly on your market gardens without the detour via the lawn.. Even the weed seeds in the compost will get there via the lawn.
But anyways, i understand you want to do this out of idealism...
So, i shouldnt muddle the debate with pragmatics :)



I gave you numbers. Are you trying to claim I'm wrong? And yes, these numbers apply directly to a lawn that is cut every week. In fact, it applies if you cut your lawn every day or once a month.



Mr. HE:cool:
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #9  
I gave you numbers. Are you trying to claim I'm wrong? And yes, these numbers apply directly to a lawn that is cut every week. In fact, it applies if you cut your lawn every day or once a month.
Not very convincing... who tested it under controlled circumstances ?
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #10  
I have a bagger for my ZTR and part of the "kit" was a new high lift blade to replace the original blade. It really does work well and that blade also blows the clippings out better when running side discharge. So for a tractor finish mower, I would expect to need different blades and don't know that such even exists.
 

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   / Finish mower bagger. #11  
Not very convincing... who tested it under controlled circumstances ?



I'll let you look that up on your own time. You're free to believe whatever you want. :D

I will help you out by saying that if you think of the physics of it, what each process requires, it becomes very easy to believe.


Side or rear discharge: Cut it off and get it out of the way.

Bagging: Cut it off and move it into a bag, the extra power required is because of the blades being used as fans to move air to assist in the bagging process.

Mulching: Cut it off and re-cut and re-cut and re-cut and re-cut and re-cut and re-cut and re-cut and re-cut and re-cut and re-cut and re-cut and re-cut and re-cut and re-cut and re-cut. I could go on like that but you get the point.


You care to take a guess at the type of mower that cuts grass with the least fuel usage?




Mr. HE:cool:
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #12  
just "thinking" of re-re-re cutting of a mulcher, should prove the claimed 50% more fuel consumption of a mulching deck ?
AFAIK the difference between the mulching deck of my brother, and the standard Husqvarna mower deck is that the mulcher has no ejection hole.

when you rake the mown stuff out of the lawn again and rake it all above the stubble, there is hardly any difference between the so-called mulched material and the material which the conventional mowing deck has blown on top of the lawn, instead of inbetween.

And indeed, as long as no one substantiates their claims, they are not facts but just opinions. So why shouldnt i stick to my own ?? ;)
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #13  
There's no doubt that different brands and models of lawnmowers, as with other products, can be quite different. I had a 3-in-1 Toro walk behind lawnmower; bag, mulch, side discharge that used the same blade all the time and nothing was different under the deck no matter which way you mowed. For bagging, you left the side discharge closed. For mulching, you also inserted a piece that plugged the bag discharge chute. For side dicharge, you raised the door on the side, and stuck a different deflector in there. And if it made any difference in the amount of gas used, it was small enough that I never noticed.

Now with the ZTR, for mulching, there's not only a piece that blocks the side discharge, but they tell me there's also a different blade and another baffe under the deck. I do not have those; only mow with side discharge or bagging. Again, I never considered any difference in gas consumption, but that doesn't mean there is no difference; only that I don't know, or care, whether there is or not.
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #14  
Not very convincing... who tested it under controlled circumstances ?

Agreed, I love people who post pretty dramatic claims but have no data to back it up and tell you to look it up if you don't believe them. But they'll argue all day that their right.
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #15  
Agreed, I love people who post pretty dramatic claims but have no data to back it up and tell you to look it up if you don't believe them. But they'll argue all day that their right.



Why is my claim dramatic but his isn't?

He made a claim about mulching that was not true and posted no data to back it up. I posted a counter claim and somehow I'm wrong? That makes no sense at all.

There was a study written up about ten years ago in Grounds Maintenance magazine (IIRC) that took a look at the claims about mulching, comparing real world operations and lawns, using side discharge, bagging and mulching.

Mulching is poorly understood; and yet marketing of mulching mowers to consumers took off like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I mention this because I feel it lies at the heart of the wholesale misunderstanding of mulching specifically and handling of grass clippings in general.

Back to the study, it found the fuel use numbers that I mentioned. I did not believe these numbers, so I ran them myself. At the time my crews were mowing 64 acres of lawn a week so testing was not hard to do. My numbers were slightly different than the article, but close enough to validate it. I was a little surprised. We had been planning a big purchase of new mulching only mowers.

My next step was a two season test between mulching vs. bagging. Side discharge did not fit with the properties we maintained so it was not tested. My business was in the rather rainy PNW and I know my results reflect this. We found that overall mulching cost us more time and money than simply bagging all of the clippings. This factored in fuel, crew time for not only mowing but also clean up, pesticide applications per IPM, mower maintenance costs, handling of debris, and fall leaf clean-up. One problem we had with mulching was complaints about appearance and grass stains on concrete sidewalks and out crews had to spend alot of time preventing stains when mulching.

We also had to start swapping blades on mowers in the middle of the day when mulching instead of just every evening after the mowing day. During the spring/early summer rush of growth we had to mulch them every 4 days instead of the usual weekly rotation. If the weather was wet mulching took much longer than bagging. In short, mulching was cumbersome and expensive in our commercial operation that focused on high end residential and commercial properties.

Having said that I will defend mulching, it is useful. We used in on sports fields that had their own mowers assigned. We also used it on large non-formal grass areas. We tried it a few years later after we started adding PGR with the spring Pre-E weed treatment and found we could put formal lawns on a weekly schedule without degrading their appearance.

Anyway, there you all have it. I personally have in excess of $2,000,000.00 invested in learning what works between the two primary ways of dealing with clippings. I've just shared that with you all free of charge and at the expense of my time. If you believe it fine, you may benefit from what I paid to learn. Others that run commercial operations have found the same basic thing. Some have written articles. Many operations use mulching and have a business model that it works with it. Many of them would make more money if they stopped doing it, but they don't know.

If you still don't believe me it is your loss, you're free to wallow on in ignorance.



Mr. HE:cool:
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #17  
If you still don't believe me it is your loss, you're free to wallow on in ignorance.

I realize you're fairly new to TBN, but that sort of comment is uncalled for. Personal attacks are not permitted on TBN.

You made a statement about fuel costs and there was reason to have some doubt (you said yourself in your last post "I did not believe these numbers") so you were asked where that came from. Why should others believe them if you didn't? And why should a question make you mad? If you didn't want to provide the information, you didn't have to reply.

But now you've provided a very good answer with information that most of us probably appreciate, and then ruined it with your last uncalled for sentence.
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #18  
But now you've provided a very good answer with information that most of us probably appreciate, and then ruined it with your last uncalled for sentence.
That particular sentence blew all credibility of his actual post for me.
Hence my last reply ;)
 
   / Finish mower bagger. #19  
I realize you're fairly new to TBN, but that sort of comment is uncalled for. Personal attacks are not permitted on TBN.

You made a statement about fuel costs and there was reason to have some doubt (you said yourself in your last post "I did not believe these numbers") so you were asked where that came from. Why should others believe them if you didn't? And why should a question make you mad? If you didn't want to provide the information, you didn't have to reply.

But now you've provided a very good answer with information that most of us probably appreciate, and then ruined it with your last uncalled for sentence.


It was not a personal attack since ignorance is something a person can change. If I had called him ugly that would be a personal attack. You think it was uncalled for and you may be right, it was meant as my final contribution to the debate, meaning "take it or leave it".

Either way, you all have a Happy Thanksgiving, hope you are all having a good meal and good company and you that you all have a long list of things to be thankful for. A vigorous debate does not mean I feel any ill-will towards any of you, I hope you all feel the same.



Mr. HE:cool:
 

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