1920's Farm house re-wire, need some input

[mjncad]

First off, go with a 200 AMP service as others have stated.

Second, get a code book if you can afford it, otherwise get a code cheater book that breaks down the most used sections of the NEC into understandable English.

Third, if you are still in doubt, get a professional to do the work, or see if you can work out a deal with an electrician to be his/her gofer/grunt so you can learn by watching.

There is no need to use #12 AWG for lighting circuits, especially with the trend towards CFL's and LED's. Unless you've got enough incandescent bulbs to light up Yankee stadium, you're wasting your money using #12 AWG for lighting.

I can't imagine not having AC in a humid climate; but that's your choice.

 

[nwngunner]

First off, go with a 200 AMP service as others have stated.

Second, get a code book if you can afford it, otherwise get a code cheater book that breaks down the most used sections of the NEC into understandable English.

Third, if you are still in doubt, get a professional to do the work, or see if you can work out a deal with an electrician to be his/her gofer/grunt so you can learn by watching.

There is no need to use #12 AWG for lighting circuits, especially with the trend towards CFL's and LED's. Unless you've got enough incandescent bulbs to light up Yankee stadium, you're wasting your money using #12 AWG for lighting.

I can't imagine not having AC in a humid climate; but that's your choice.

The reason for no ac is i am betting he has fuel oil or coal boiler heat. I am sure the house has no ducting in it.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Wow, thanks for the plethora of info so quick. Let me add to a few things that were brought up. First the AC, we live at a little over 2000' elevation and it doesn't get that humid. This past summer we used the AC in our current house a grand total of 4 days. The new house as someone mentioned, has no duct work and that isn't something I want to get into right now. We'll have a few ceiling fans and call it good.

As for all the code and inspection stuff, this is the reasons why I'm an Agricultural construction contractor, lol. I hate how tough residential code and inspection has gotten so luckily in my line of work I don't have to deal with much of that. I'm going to go about this re-wire in one of two ways. First would be pull all the necessary permits, get a new 200 amp service put in and try to do everything to code. Could be a big hassle, lots of money and make me do things that really I don't need or want to do (outlets all over the place, etc). Second would be work with the 100 amp service I have and just rewire a few circuits at a time until it's done. While technically I might need a permit for that, I wouldn't feel as bad about not getting one. I'll also add that we plan on living here pretty well the rest of our lives, so any resale issues aren't at the top of my priority. I am also 100% sure that anything I do will be safe and a huge improvement over what's there.


As for my experience in electrical work, about 10yrs ago I worked for my uncle who owns a large Electrical/HVAC firm in Illinois. I helped do plenty of rewires, so I know the tricks and techniques and have many of the specialty tools required as well. I also got to do a fair bit of new construction electrical (both residential and commercial), installed numerous heat pumps and furnaces and spent a few months helping run his directional boring rig. I'm 100% confident in my ability to safely do this project, just trying to decide how to go about it and refresh my memory along the way. I probably do need to pick up a new edition of the code book as I'm sure a lot has changed in the last 10 years. My uncle always taught me to use 12ga wire instead of 14 so if you wanted to change a circuit or upgrade something later you wouldn't have to pull new wire. Again, 10 years ago the price of copper wasn't through the roof, so the cost of doing that wasn't so great.


Good info on the oscillating mulit-tool, definitely something I'll be looking into. :thumbsup:


I'll also add that I'm planning to eventually run a second service (200 amp) to run the farm buildings (mainly shop and barn.) So none of that will draw off the house service.


I guess what most of this boils down to is the dilemma of getting the inspections done and doing it all to code vs. working with what I have and just making sure it's safe.

Thanks for all the great advice so far, keep it coming.

 

[nwngunner]

Being you are wanting to run 200 amp to the barns and shop i would get a double disconnect box. So you can shut down the shop from the house and vice versa. For 200amp going to take a new meter might as well do 200 amp in the house.

 

[bucktaker]

First off draw a schematic of what you want to end up with, include lighting, number of outlets, range, dryers,

Replace your service box with a 200 amp panel, it may be easier to rewire with new circuits and more lightly loaded breakers than run wire all over the place to tie circuits on, you can upgrade the service later if you need to.
Add some window ac outlets since you are not planning on central AC Your needs may change as you age and it would be nice to have Ac in the bedroom or living room.
You can save money by using 14 wire for lighting as you typically dont gang multiple room on lighting circuits.

Spend your money wisely now and save headaches later on

 

[Verticaltrx]

Being you are wanting to run 200 amp to the barns and shop i would get a double disconnect box. So you can shut down the shop from the house and vice versa. For 200amp going to take a new meter might as well do 200 amp in the house.

Maybe I misspoke on how I was planning to do that. The service for the farm will be completely separate, it'll actually be headed the opposite direction from the house. I only threw that info in so people wouldn't think I'd also be powering outbuildings off the house.

First off draw a schematic of what you want to end up with, include lighting, number of outlets, range, dryers,

Replace your service box with a 200 amp panel, it may be easier to rewire with new circuits and more lightly loaded breakers than run wire all over the place to tie circuits on, you can upgrade the service later if you need to.
Add some window ac outlets since you are not planning on central AC Your needs may change as you age and it would be nice to have Ac in the bedroom or living room.
You can save money by using 14 wire for lighting as you typically dont gang multiple room on lighting circuits.

Spend your money wisely now and save headaches later on

So are you saying buy a 200 amp breaker box but leave the service at 100 amps for now? That might be an option, but don't most of the newer 200 amp boxes have one large integrated main breaker? Having a 200 amp breaker on a 100 amp service seems like a big no no to me. Other ways to get around that?

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Now with more info to work with: Use your 100A entrance for now. If you max it out over time (actually available breaker spaces (not divisified ampacity) do what I did once; Put in the new service at 200A and provide a 100A breaker and feeder to the existing panel and then proceed to put new circuits into the new one. Another one I did was add a 100A paneloff the 200A for regular circuits, another 100A panel only for baseboard electric heat and window ACs, and another 100A Panel in the garage. All legal based on the diversity factors allowed in the residential code.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Now with more info to work with: Use your 100A entrance for now. If you max it out over time (actually available breaker spaces (not divisified ampacity) do what I did once; Put in the new service at 200A and provide a 100A breaker and feeder to the existing panel and then proceed to put new circuits into the new one. Another one I did was add a 100A paneloff the 200A for regular circuits, another 100A panel only for baseboard electric heat and window ACs, and another 100A Panel in the garage. All legal based on the diversity factors allowed in the residential code.

Yet another thing I hadn't thought of, but a great idea.


Question for those that mentioned the oscillating multi-tool for plaster: Specifically what type of blade/attachment did you use? Different one for the plaster vs lath? I was at Lowes today and took a look at the different models they had. Interesting little tool, something I'd never seen before.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Plaster is very abasive, if it is plaster on metal lath it is worse. Use the diamond embedded one made for ceramic tile. Remember, all old plaster has asbestos fiber in it unless it is old enough to be reinforced with horse hair, nuff said. There are ways to protect yourself, need a HEPA vaccum to collect and clean up the fine dust laden with fibers. Research it on the web, too complicated for this forum.

 

[mjncad]

The reason for no ac is i am betting he has fuel oil or coal boiler heat. I am sure the house has no ducting in it.

Good point that I hadn't thought of since I'm not big on older houses.

A new 200 AMP service panel is cheap. Putting one in later isn't. Like tractors, go big now, not later.