955Lincoln
Gold Member
I'll let GRS take this one as I'm not an lectrishon. Do you have a "meter main" where the meter and your main 200 amp house breaker and some extra breakers are in the same enclosure? I just don't know if this is the case.
Question about UG electrical service conduit to shop building
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I'll let GRS take this one as I'm not an lectrishon. Do you have a "meter main" where the meter and your main 200 amp house breaker and some extra breakers are in the same enclosure? I just don't know if this is the case.
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
IF your house is fed from a meter base with a 200 amp breaker than that makes the panel in your house a subpanel also.
A main panel is the panel that is fed directly from the transformer and has a meter and has the ground established with ground rods.
Any panel fed from breakers on this panel are by definition subpanels.
Prior to 2008 the NEC used to allow separate buildings not to have a ground wire run between main panel and subpanels in separate buildings. NOT ANYMORE. All subpanels are to have grounds run with them.
OP
TC65023
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Thanks GRS, for the clarification....apparently when my local electrical cooperative upgraded my service a month ago, they forgot something or maybe chose to ignore the obvious. The original residential panel was installed in 1980 with a three wire service with no grounding conductor back to the meter location. It was installed with a driven grounding system at the panel location.
The new meter panel enclosure has a 200A breaker sub-feeding the 200A breaker in the residential panel. I thought at the time having two same size breakers on the same feeder was questionable. I guess I need to get this matter straighten out before connecting anything else to the service. I will call them in the morning and inquire.
The new meter panel enclosure has a 200A breaker sub-feeding the 200A breaker in the residential panel. I thought at the time having two same size breakers on the same feeder was questionable. I guess I need to get this matter straighten out before connecting anything else to the service. I will call them in the morning and inquire.
955Lincoln
Gold Member
grs, do you know the reason behind the change in the code? Do they not think the earth provides a good enough ground and if so why did it take decades to decide this. :confused2:
terry.dinerman
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I had a similar issue....350 foot run between source and the barn.
I went with direct burial rated aluminum cable buried 36" deep in sandy clay / loam, used sch 80 risers at the power pole and barn sub-panel.
The line is easy to relocate as it is buried one pace away from an existing fenceline, has aluminum markers buried every 10 feet at 12" so it can be located via chart and measuring tape or a cheapo metal detector and even if some dumbbutt still inisists on dragging a plow over it, (thats ME folks!!
) it will still be prety tough to rip up.
Precious Bride better hope I don't get out there with the post hole digger, tho....
Bury it deep and use the money you would have spent on conduit for rental of the largest trencher you can get your hands on.....avoid the problems inherent with having a heavy service so close to the surface, pulling cable thru the relatively small 2" conduit or water-in-the-conduit problems.
Seal the buried ends of the risers with spray foam if you are concerned with water buildup in the trench, tho after you close the trench, I really wonder if that will become a problem.
Good luck on your project, Brother! :thumbsup:
T
I went with direct burial rated aluminum cable buried 36" deep in sandy clay / loam, used sch 80 risers at the power pole and barn sub-panel.
The line is easy to relocate as it is buried one pace away from an existing fenceline, has aluminum markers buried every 10 feet at 12" so it can be located via chart and measuring tape or a cheapo metal detector and even if some dumbbutt still inisists on dragging a plow over it, (thats ME folks!!
) it will still be prety tough to rip up.Precious Bride better hope I don't get out there with the post hole digger, tho....
Bury it deep and use the money you would have spent on conduit for rental of the largest trencher you can get your hands on.....avoid the problems inherent with having a heavy service so close to the surface, pulling cable thru the relatively small 2" conduit or water-in-the-conduit problems.
Seal the buried ends of the risers with spray foam if you are concerned with water buildup in the trench, tho after you close the trench, I really wonder if that will become a problem.
Good luck on your project, Brother! :thumbsup:
T
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
thats exactly why. If the ground doesn't allow a proper grounding path back to the main breaker, there is no way for that main breaker to shut off if there's a major fault in the system. We used to be able just to install separate ground rods at separate sub panels.... no longer
Just another stupid law. The old system was just fine. The egg heads overthink everything.
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
Direct burial is just fine and dandy if your using soil thats clay/sandy loam, etc. But if you have rocky soils.watch out. If you get a nick in the outer coating of alum wire, the water literally EATS away the aluminum wires. Ive seen this happen many times. I go to dig up the old service and all thats left in a 3' section of wire is the outer shield and a bunch of aluminum dust.I had a similar issue....350 foot run between source and the barn.
I went with direct burial rated aluminum cable buried 36" deep in sandy clay / loam, used sch 80 risers at the power pole and barn sub-panel.
The line is easy to relocate as it is buried one pace away from an existing fenceline, has aluminum markers buried every 10 feet at 12" so it can be located via chart and measuring tape or a cheapo metal detector and even if some dumbbutt still inisists on dragging a plow over it, (thats ME folks!!
Precious Bride better hope I don't get out there with the post hole digger, tho....
Bury it deep and use the money you would have spent on conduit for rental of the largest trencher you can get your hands on.....avoid the problems inherent with having a heavy service so close to the surface, pulling cable thru the relatively small 2" conduit or water-in-the-conduit problems.
Seal the buried ends of the risers with spray foam if you are concerned with water buildup in the trench, tho after you close the trench, I really wonder if that will become a problem.
Good luck on your project, Brother! :thumbsup:
T
OP
TC65023
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- 1951 Ford 8N and 2012 Kubota L4600 FEL
Yes, I have rocky soil, called hard pan....with lots of sharp jagged flint rock. Direct buried wire is not a viable option for me. Heck, I will probably even put chat rock around the PVC conduit to provide some added insurance before I backfill the trench.
955Lincoln
Gold Member
Running into a few rocks myself....maybe not sharp like yours though.
I'm using stone dust in various places. It's ground up rock almost like sand. Pea gravel would work well also, whatever is cheaper in your area.
I'm using stone dust in various places. It's ground up rock almost like sand. Pea gravel would work well also, whatever is cheaper in your area.
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For a practical answer...
you need to protect internal components from water and you need to protect the wire from overheating.
The NEC is about life safety and not necessarily a design guide. It has to protect the idiot from itself.
If I had a 250' run and it was just for power, there would be no plumbing to bridge water, air, rodents and fumes from one place to the other.
I could give a crap less about frost lines or crushing forces beyond 6" under cover.
My truck sits outside when it's 0 degrees and the headlights still work in the morning. Those wires aren't buried.
That's my two cents.
-Luke
you need to protect internal components from water and you need to protect the wire from overheating.
The NEC is about life safety and not necessarily a design guide. It has to protect the idiot from itself.
If I had a 250' run and it was just for power, there would be no plumbing to bridge water, air, rodents and fumes from one place to the other.
I could give a crap less about frost lines or crushing forces beyond 6" under cover.
My truck sits outside when it's 0 degrees and the headlights still work in the morning. Those wires aren't buried.
That's my two cents.
-Luke