Injector Pump failure

[bob42]

I have learned so much from many of you on this forum that I need to pass on what I have learned.
A year ago my DK40 with about a 100 hrs. on it went to full throttle after a restart. Called my dealer and he had a replacement installed in a few days. It now has 150 hrs. on it with no problems.
I recently talked to the mechanic and asked if they had taken my old pump apart to see what had happened to make it fail. He hadn't and allowed me to take it apart. The first and second pictures shows the broken gear tooth that jammed it full throttle. The third picture shows, for those of you interested, what is inside these things. When the mechanic saw what had failed he handed me a three cylinder pump from another Kioti. The fourth picture shows two broken teeth on the gear from it. Their opinion is that the violent action of the solenoid is breaking the teeth.
I agree with them because I found nothing else wrong. Quality of the individual sintered metal gears could be questioned since not all gears fail.

 

[MotorSeven]

That's interesting Bob, thanks for the pic's. But if the solenoids are too much for the gears would we not see more IP failures?

 

[wallace]

We were told that..... The gear was made with to hard of steel.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

We were told that..... The gear was made with to hard of steel.

It sounds logical at least.

 

[mrutkaus]

Seeing the inside of the pump was interesting, thanks.

Mike

 

[PatS]

My Kioti CK 20S is in for repair right noe for injector pump failure. I believe it is the same issue show here. It led to incidents of out of control very high RPMs. Apparently the glow plug tips also broke off. This seems to have happened fairly often and is due to defective manufacturing or design. Has Kioto offered to help with these repairs? Or Bosch (who, I believe, makes the pump)?

 

[VictorW]

Members have posted having their pump replaced under warranty on various models. I don't know if anyone didn't have to pay "after" warranty. The early CK30 injector pump had a problem with a plastic part going bad which was apparently redesigned.

 

[LaVoie Equipment]

My Kioti CK 20S is in for repair right noe for injector pump failure. I believe it is the same issue show here. It led to incidents of out of control very high RPMs. Apparently the glow plug tips also broke off. This seems to have happened fairly often and is due to defective manufacturing or design. Has Kioto offered to help with these repairs? Or Bosch (who, I believe, makes the pump)?

I have not seen a CK20 injection pump failure. Doesnt mean it cannot happen. I do not expect KIOTI to warranty it unless the tractor is less than two years old. Your dealer that is working on the tractor can call and ask. Worst thing - KIOTI will say is no.

Couple things for your future information. These little pumps really don't like biodiesel - discontinue use. Next ALWAYS (cannot stress this enough!), use some sort of fuel additive. KIOTI has one, FPPF Polar Power, Stanadyne, and of course LUCAS.

I use Polar Power in my trucks, KIOTI in my tractors. Both of these have blends for summer and winter use. Very critical.

One thing you have heard before and I will repeat. To get to the 15ppm rating they burn the lubricating properties out of the fuel. These additives NEED to be put in every tank full.

I believe in them. Every tractor leaves my dealership with required amount of KIOTI fuel treatment.

Tony

 

[Coyote machine]

I have not seen a CK20 injection pump failure. Doesnt mean it cannot happen. I do not expect KIOTI to warranty it unless the tractor is less than two years old. Your dealer that is working on the tractor can call and ask. Worst thing - KIOTI will say is no.

Couple things for your future information. These little pumps really don't like biodiesel - discontinue use. Next ALWAYS (cannot stress this enough!), use some sort of fuel additive. KIOTI has one, FPPF Polar Power, Stanadyne, and of course LUCAS.

I use Polar Power in my trucks, KIOTI in my tractors. Both of these have blends for summer and winter use. Very critical.

One thing you have heard before and I will repeat. To get to the 15ppm rating they burn the lubricating properties out of the fuel. These additives NEED to be put in every tank full.

I believe in them. Every tractor leaves my dealership with required amount of KIOTI fuel treatment.

Tony

Curious as to why one needs to add an additive to every tank of fuel used in ALL Kioti tractors?
I know what your saying about the 'dry' fuel, but can nothing diesel run without adding something to the fuel?
To date I've run a DK-35 for 350 hours and my current DK-40 for over 215+ hours with no additives whatsoever. I've had no starting issues, no frozen or gelled fuel issues, etc., etc. Granted, I do keep my fuel in an insulated tank stored in an indoor garage, and my local supplier cuts the fuel for winter months use.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but does Kioti suggest or require and additive to be used?
If so, where do they state this?

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Looks like part was possibly made from powdered metal? Look at the machined diameter, it looks porous to me.

 

[MrSteve]

Looks like part was possibly made from powdered metal? Look at the machined diameter, it looks porous to me.

I have to agree, that sure does look like a injected molded part. To me some parts (well I would love to see no parts) shouldn't be injected molded and to me a gear should be on top of the list not to be injected molded.

 

[LaVoie Equipment]

Curious as to why one needs to add an additive to every tank of fuel used in ALL Kioti tractors?
I know what your saying about the 'dry' fuel, but can nothing diesel run without adding something to the fuel?
To date I've run a DK-35 for 350 hours and my current DK-40 for over 215+ hours with no additives whatsoever. I've had no starting issues, no frozen or gelled fuel issues, etc., etc. Granted, I do keep my fuel in an insulated tank stored in an indoor garage, and my local supplier cuts the fuel for winter months use.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but does Kioti suggest or require and additive to be used?
If so, where do they state this?

If you are using your tractor day after day and going through a tank or more a week, you should have no problem. Problems arise from the sitting of fuel, when condensation occurs - this adds to the Water that is already in your fuel.

KIOTI doesn't state an "additive to be used" anywhere. It is more of a recommendation that we follow. I personally add to all my trucks, cars and equipment.

Lubricity is the biggest issue with todays fuel and most fuel additives add this back to the fuel. Also fuel additives typically breakdown/seperate the water from the fuel and trap it in your filter. In todays fuel I am seeing more and more water. I have blown 3 injector tips off injectors. This is directly related to water - all three, fuel came from a different location.

Tony

 

[mj007]

.....KIOTI doesn't state an "additive to be used" anywhere. It is more of a recommendation that we follow. I personally add to all my trucks, cars and equipment.

Lubricity is the biggest issue with todays fuel and most fuel additives add this back to the fuel. Also fuel additives typically breakdown/seperate the water from the fuel and trap it in your filter.
Tony

DITTO!

 

[Coyote machine]

If you are using your tractor day after day and going through a tank or more a week, you should have no problem. Problems arise from the sitting of fuel, when condensation occurs - this adds to the Water that is already in your fuel.

KIOTI doesn't state an "additive to be used" anywhere. It is more of a recommendation that we follow. I personally add to all my trucks, cars and equipment.

Lubricity is the biggest issue with todays fuel and most fuel additives add this back to the fuel. Also fuel additives typically breakdown/seperate the water from the fuel and trap it in your filter. In todays fuel I am seeing more and more water. I have blown 3 injector tips off injectors. This is directly related to water - all three, fuel came from a different location.

Tony

OK, I hear you on the reasons to add an additive- BUT, why isn't this type of stuff already in the fuel?! I know it sounds like a 'dumb' question, but if everybody knows today's fuel is crap and has no lubricity to it then wouldn't it make sense for the supply chain suppliers to add it in prior to the retail customer receiving the fuel?
For instance Shell and other gas suppliers claim their gas is the best- has oxygen added or nitrogen or snowflakes or some other cutting edge additive, so why not diesel suppliers? I know my supplier cuts their fuel for the winter months, as an example of trying to keep it from gelling....Is it such a stretch to have lubricity added back in?
And while we're on the subject it has supposedly been shown that some additives do a lot and others do almost nothing to improve the fuel condition.
And then there's biocides too? To keep down the algae, etc.
What are your thoughts on those?

Thanks,

CM

 

[RickB]

I do not expect KIOTI to warranty it unless the tractor is less than two years old. Your dealer that is working on the tractor can call and ask. Worst thing - KIOTI will say is no.

Tony

The EPA more than likely mandates a 5 year warranty on all fuel system parts as part of the emissions regulatory framework.
Many dealers and manufacturers don't publicize or acknowledge this warranty until it is pointed out to them. Read the fine print before writing a check for any fuel system repair on any engine designed to meet Federal emissions standards.

 

[MotorSeven]

The EPA more than likely mandates a 5 year warranty on all fuel system parts as part of the emissions regulatory framework.
Many dealers and manufacturers don't publicize or acknowledge this warranty until it is pointed out to them. Read the fine print before writing a check for any fuel system repair on any engine designed to meet Federal emissions standards.

I thought tractors were still exempt from the epa regs....no?

 

[Coyote machine]

The EPA more than likely mandates a 5 year warranty on all fuel system parts as part of the emissions regulatory framework.
Many dealers and manufacturers don't publicize or acknowledge this warranty until it is pointed out to them. Read the fine print before writing a check for any fuel system repair on any engine designed to meet Federal emissions standards.

Correct-a mundo!
Refer to recent thread about: " broke dk55, BOOO...". There is a fairly in depth discussion about just this EPA mandated reg several pages into the thread.

 

[Singlemalt]

I have occasionally added a litre of 10w-30 oil to my diesel fuel.

Is this improving lubricity?

I was told it lubricates the injectors, does it?

 

[LaVoie Equipment]

OK, I hear you on the reasons to add an additive- BUT, why isn't this type of stuff already in the fuel?! I know it sounds like a 'dumb' question, but if everybody knows today's fuel is crap and has no lubricity to it then wouldn't it make sense for the supply chain suppliers to add it in prior to the retail customer receiving the fuel?
For instance Shell and other gas suppliers claim their gas is the best- has oxygen added or nitrogen or snowflakes or some other cutting edge additive, so why not diesel suppliers? I know my supplier cuts their fuel for the winter months, as an example of trying to keep it from gelling....Is it such a stretch to have lubricity added back in?
And while we're on the subject it has supposedly been shown that some additives do a lot and others do almost nothing to improve the fuel condition.
And then there's biocides too? To keep down the algae, etc.
What are your thoughts on those?

Thanks,

CM

Cannot honestly answer why diesel additives are not added from the fuel supplier - Best guess, Diesel fuel is used faster than gasoline is, i.e. Diesel Trucks - over the road, Construction equipment, heating oil, etc. NOTE: Before anyone comments, All diesel is ULSD fuel NOW! EPA Regs.

Cetane: get the number up! Most fuel additives do this - some more than others.

Biocides - The only time you should even worry about this is if you have a LARGE storage container and let fuel sit for a long time or know you have an algae problem. A lot of people buy used tanks - how long is that fuel been in there? Did the previous owner have fuel issues? Algae does not just go away. It must be treated.

Stanadyne does have Algae killer built in but takes a lot to cure. Best thing if you do find you have algae is talk to a fuel supplier and purchase a kit from them.

Tony

 

[LaVoie Equipment]

I thought tractors were still exempt from the epa regs....no?

No sir! All engines are EPA regulated in someway shape or form. So that means everything with an internal combustion engine is EPA regulated. Items for California are CARB regulated. Tier IV engines are coming and in a hurry! Yes we as dealers will come to love EGR's, common rail fuel systems, Cats, DPF's, etc.

Tony