Veterans Day fast approaching
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patrick_g
Elite Member
It's strange. Two kids get out of high school, one goes in the service, comes out with an Honorable Discharge, the other kid goes to college, comes out with a degree.
The veteran, hardly hears more than a welcome home, if that, while the college grad. is congratulated at parties and celebrations, in his honor.
Done both, college thing several times. I never ever hung any of my diplomas and am not quite sure where to lay my hands on any of them but I could grab a copy of my DD form 214 in under 30 seconds!
I'm probably an anachronism, being a cold warrior from the bad old days of nuclear mutual assured destruction and the Viet Nam era. (mid 60's)
Anyway, thanks to all the other guys who wore a uniform for our country and thanks to all taxpayers for the Viet Nam vet GI bill that helped me go to school to get the diplomas I probably couldn't find.
I was in England a few years back and just happened by accident to be at the site of the Remembrance Day ceremony (Veteran's Day here in the states) and stayed to watch. The Brits take this stuff seriously. There were no protesters or detractors just serious and enthusiastic and respectful participation. There were a huge number of citizens mostly in civilian garb but wearing their military ribbons marching in an orderly parade after the passage of uniformed military on parade.
I have been privileged to have had several friends who served in WWII and made it abundantly clear to them how thankful I was that they answered the call. Three were Navy and one was Air Force (Army Air Corp then.) Only two are still with us and getting along in years but still 100% American (as were the others.) Lenny drove a landing craft three times to the beach on D Day to deliver another poster's Ranger father to Point Du Hoc. Jack survived three sinkings in the South Pacific, Jim flew nearly twice the combat missions required to rotate out with the 8th AF over France and Germany as a tail gunner in B-17.
I was never personally in combat but served to prepare pilots who were and lost two friends who volunteered for the Dragon ships in Nam.
There are three kinds of kids at the playground (or adults in life): 1. some kids push the merry-go-round for all to enjoy, others sit passively and enjoy the ride but don't push, and then there are those who drag there feet. If you are a foot dragger or free rider don;t you think you should think those doing the work?
Patrick
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OldMcDonald
Platinum Member
I was perturbed to read about the bad treatment of Vietnam veterans. I hope I am not posting out of line, or involving myself in something I should not, but was this common? Did it happen to veterans from other wars that the US is/was involved in? Were the perpetrators of these attacks ever charged with an offence or punished?
I cannot imagine anyone treating their protectors in such a manner.
I cannot imagine anyone treating their protectors in such a manner.
patrick_g
Elite Member
Unfortunately true and not infrequent. Zealots of any ilk demonstrate excessive behavior. Flower children, peace and love generation... Reality oft differs from myth.
Pat
mx842
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In general it was not uncommon but in some parts of the country it was worse than others. It got worse as the war dragged on and from 67 to the end of the war it escalated from just the flower children/anti war crowd being against the war to the whole country in some form or another.
Somehow the news media got their foot in the door and were allowed to go in to the front lines and broadcast real time footage of battles and things that went on during the course of daily routine. Of course they went straight for the areas where they could get the most bang for their buck and that meant a lot of stuff as presented made the us military look like barbarians. When the general public started seeing pictures of women and children's bodies in the streets...never mind how they were killed, and hearing all the stories of how our guys would fight for days and weeks to take one stinking hill in the jungle and once they were done move on to the next one. While as soon as they would leave the NVA would move back into the same area like nothing ever happened. It just seemed to the people back home that we were just wasting time.
In a sense I guess we were because you cannot win a war against an enemy that has unlimited people they are willing to sacrifice by just being content with high body count numbers. That war like any war could have been won but you have to play to win the war not just this battle or the next. Sadly this war may go down as the war that started the downward spiral of America as we knew it.
I have mixed emotions on believing everything our government tells us but one thing I know for sure is that no war should ever be fought in the news media, I trust them even less. If we are going to send our men and women into battle we should do so after all the politics and talking has failed. Once we commit our troops leave the politics at home and let our military do the job it was trained to do.
War is nasty and when it comes to that point you have to play to win and you do that by inflicting as much death and destruction to your opponent as it takes to break his will to fight. You can't do that by tying the hands of the men on the ground because it looks more politically correct to do so. I hate the argument the left always comes up with when they say we have lost all face to the rest of the world and they will never like us because we are the bad guys. I want America to be the baddest mofo on the block. We have the best trained military in the world with the best gadgets that money can buy and I want the people that aim to do us harm to know we will use these assets with a vengeance and do what it takes to keep our country safe.
The battles of VN started a dangerous trend toward using the political correct way of fighting our wars and at least one enemy knew this and used it to lead us to the ultimate undoing of the US war machine and possibly the neutering of America itself. I wonder what the future will be for my grand kids and from what I can figure it don't look all that good. The men who fought on the battlefields all over this world in the past wars had the backing of men that realized what it took to win and they had the will to win. From what I can see now all those men are gone and what is left are the career students and politicians that have no clue what real work is or how to survive in a world that is chomping at the bit to take us down.
RoyJackson
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I agree with your comments 100%...Vietnam was my era, so I saw quite a bit of what you wrote about.
First, the government wanted to fight a war, but didn't want anyone hurt (figuratively speaking). The media, for the most part, had their own agenda....BTW, this is also the beginning of the news media degenerating into entertainment...we all know where that went.
One of the worst things about the Vietnam war (and how it was mishandled by the adminstrations of the time) is it really energized the left wing fruitcakes that spawned some of our "leaders" today.
After that debacle, I came to the opinion that government should send no troops anywhere unless war is declared.
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mx842
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And i might add we go to win and then get out. I never did understand why we would spend millions of dollars blowing up sh** and then spending billions to build it back better than it was before so they can talk badly about us anyway.
And don't get me started about the left sided media and their agenda. :laughing:
OldMcDonald
Platinum Member
Thank you very much gentlemen, and especially mx842 for that very eloquent posting at #65. I have to agree with your sentiments at #67 too. I often asked myself why Germany and Japan were funded and helped to prosper so much in the aftermath of what should have been their "Waterloo". I use that word because eventually the French did recover from it, but they did it over a very long time and by their own efforts.
I hope nobody wants to turn this into a political dialogue because I believe it would detract from the intent of the OP. Thank you all again for what you have done for me and millions of other free people around the world.
I hope nobody wants to turn this into a political dialogue because I believe it would detract from the intent of the OP. Thank you all again for what you have done for me and millions of other free people around the world.
QRTRHRS
Elite Member
A friend had emailed me on Veterans day to thank me for my service. I replied by saying, I really had not done much compared to others such as her father. I bow to them.
Her father who had passed a year or so ago had been on Iwo. While he never allowed much about his memories, I had been told by some of his friends that he was one of the bravest men that they had ever known.
Anyway, my friend wrote me back that she appreciated that I still thought of him and all. She told me a story that came out after his death. His brother was in town for the funeral and stayed a few days so there was time to talk.
He said that the two of them were doing something in the attic one day and the brother found a little tin box. Handing it to my friends father, he asked what was in the box. "Oh, that's my Silver Star" then tossed it aside. That was the end of it, no more to be said.
No one in the family had even known that he had it. I suppose he thought that there were others more worthy.
Her father who had passed a year or so ago had been on Iwo. While he never allowed much about his memories, I had been told by some of his friends that he was one of the bravest men that they had ever known.
Anyway, my friend wrote me back that she appreciated that I still thought of him and all. She told me a story that came out after his death. His brother was in town for the funeral and stayed a few days so there was time to talk.
He said that the two of them were doing something in the attic one day and the brother found a little tin box. Handing it to my friends father, he asked what was in the box. "Oh, that's my Silver Star" then tossed it aside. That was the end of it, no more to be said.
No one in the family had even known that he had it. I suppose he thought that there were others more worthy.
