Orangeburg Sewer Pipe problem

[Artisan]

Nope...

The arguement that the flow is only on the bottom is wrong. Sewers fill, for multitudes of reasons. There out of sight and you do not see it usually. If there is a stoppage anywhere, even downstream in the street, your sewer fills, thus the top portions will leak if invalid. If the neighbor has piped storm water into the sewer (stupid) then when it rains sewers can flood as well, inflow is disasterous to sewer systems. Some municipalities allow it, they are few and far apart.
Additionally the sewer must be 100% valid to retain sewer gases. You know, airborn disease carrying fumes? What you do not know is sewer gases can and usually do eat the top of old metalic piping. The top of metalic pipes is usually the first to go! Believe it! All sewers must be solid and hold water to 5psi, period. There is absolutely no arguement that will change this no matter how hard your try. None! Keeping the populous healthy is priority #1. Your arguements, basically your saying it is ok for a few leaks here and there would kill us all eventually if everyone had the same ideas. The ONLY reason humans have prospered and are able to live so many in so close proxmitiy is the advent of plumbing, plumbing that works, not plumbing that is sub-standard and leaks, which can lead to adverse health issues!

 

[JB4310]

Nope...

The arguement that the flow is only on the bottom is wrong. Sewers fill, for multitudes of reasons. There out of sight and you do not see it usually. If there is a stoppage anywhere, even downstream in the street, your sewer fills, thus the top portions will leak if invalid. If the neighbor has piped storm water into the sewer (stupid) then when it rains sewers can flood as well, inflow is disasterous to sewer systems. Some municipalities allow it, they are few and far apart.
Additionally the sewer must be 100% valid to retain sewer gases. You know, airborn disease carrying fumes? What you do not know is sewer gases can and usually do eat the top of old metalic piping. The top of metalic pipes is usually the first to go! Believe it! All sewers must be solid and hold water to 5psi, period. There is absolutely no arguement that will change this no matter how hard your try. None! Keeping the populous healthy is priority #1. Your arguements, basically your saying it is ok for a few leaks here and there would kill us all eventually if everyone had the same ideas. The ONLY reason humans have prospered and are able to live so many in so close proxmitiy is the advent of plumbing, plumbing that works, not plumbing that is sub-standard and leaks, which can lead to adverse health issues!

Well I tried to make a legitimate argument based on my experience but sounds like you are not willing to accept any deviation, so I will stop.

I will say we are talking about house sewers and 99.9% of the time the flow is on the bottom 25% of the pipe at most. I know sewers back up, but house sewers quickly recede at 1-3% pitch. Main trunk sewers are a different storey at 0.1 % pitch of course.

As far as the inflow goes, I live in an area where there is a huge amount of storm water entering the sanitary sewer system. This is a 100 year old system in the city, which now branches out to several suburban towns. I work on basement drainage systems and most of the homes still have combination drains, some of the streets storm drains, until just recently shared the same sewer!

So I know all about surging and backing up sewer systems. It's kind of foolish to line the main sewers to stop ground water inflow, when the vast majority of the storm water is getting in there from residential discharge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1AOsgj7P7M

Our sewer district at one time tried to police it and stop it, but it is so prevalent that they gave up for now, and got 1.5 billion dollars to play with over the next 20 years.

JB

 

[dodge man]

I've never heard of requiring a home owner pressure test sewer pipes. Thats just crazy. I work in the civil engineering buisness, so regs like this don't suprise me. My questions is, how the heck do you pressure test a sewer service going to a house? You would have to dig up the sewer main and plug it there, and then you would have to somehow plug it off at the house, which may or may not require digging. Sounds like a lot of wasted money to me.

Open your newpaper and look for a story about someone that died from sewage getting in their drinking water. Than look for the number of people that died in car crashes. Where should we be spending the money?

 

[JB4310]

I've never heard of requiring a home owner pressure test sewer pipes. Thats just crazy. I work in the civil engineering buisness, so regs like this don't suprise me. My questions is, how the heck do you pressure test a sewer service going to a house? You would have to dig up the sewer main and plug it there, and then you would have to somehow plug it off at the house, which may or may not require digging. Sounds like a lot of wasted money to me.

Open your newpaper and look for a story about someone that died from sewage getting in their drinking water. Than look for the number of people that died in car crashes. Where should we be spending the money?

Good question, they probably snake an expandable bladder down the line and inflate it to close the pipe.

I have seen them pressure test a homes sewer and vent system using the bladder right at the exit of the house. They wanted me to fill my entire system to the roof vent with water, with all the drains plugged. I was holding my breath thinking about my 75 year old cast iron and threaded brass drain pipes in the walls of my completely renovated house, but in the end the inspector just looked at some of the new work we did and was satisfied.

JB

 

[ultrarunner]

A couple of additional comments.

The test is routinely done with a Weenie... an expandable bladder used to block the end of the lateral and another at the clean-out or where the house line joins the lateral... A camera that also works with an underground detector will show exact location and how many feet out to the lateral to the main connection.

Property owner's are responsible for the connection at the Main... so this can get very costly quickly if the city main needs to be sectioned and replaced.

The test can cost as much as $1000 and is part of the property record...

They say cost should come down as competition gears up.

The case for this starts with the SF Bay... during times of heavy rain, the treatment plants are inundated and overwhelmed by volume that may result in raw, untreated discharge to the Bay.

There is zero commercial AG in the city or nearby areas...

Main line overflows are common in normal weather... thousands of gallons an hour can back-up into the storm drains that empty into creeks.

Many years ago, the city would annually treat all their old lines with a product called Angus that kept clay lines root free... since this procedure was halted... old clay lines may stop a couple of times a year... there can be a lot of flow in 8 and 10" mains.

By far, the biggest problems found with a year of smoke testing data is very few cross connections... mostly old city brick and clay mains are the problem...

There are between 425 to 450k people living here... each home now pays $25 a month for sewer main repair and maintenance... totally separate from sewage treatment fees which are based on the number of gallons of water that flows through individual property water meters...

 

[JB4310]

Property owner's are responsible for the connection at the Main... so this can get very costly quickly if the city main needs to be sectioned and replaced.

...

Ouch!
Around here the metropolitan district owns and maintains the sewer right up to the property line, that's what we refer to as the lateral.

So the home owner is only liable for the portion on his property. Yes the portion near the main is very expensive to repair especially considering the fact it's usually under the middle of the road, beneath all the other utilities.
Very expensive.

Our sewer commission is pretty good about not nickle and diming us, we don't even have a sewer charge of any kind, of course it's payed for some how through our taxes. But they are very good, will come out day or night if there is a break or a blockage. they don't get out the tape measure if it's close to the property line, they just fix it. the same goes for our water service.

The same entity that maintains the sanitary sewer system delivers our potable water. I'm not sure if that's common for other municipalities???

JB

 

[ultrarunner]

Ouch!
Around here the metropolitan district owns and maintains the sewer right up to the property line, that's what we refer to as the lateral.

So the home owner is only liable for the portion on his property. Yes the portion near the main is very expensive to repair especially considering the fact it's usually under the middle of the road, beneath all the other utilities.
Very expensive.

Our sewer commission is pretty good about not nickle and diming us, we don't even have a sewer charge of any kind, of course it's payed for some how through our taxes. But they are very good, will come out day or night if there is a break or a blockage. they don't get out the tape measure if it's close to the property line, they just fix it. the same goes for our water service.

The same entity that maintains the sanitary sewer system delivers our potable water. I'm not sure if that's common for other municipalities???

JB

It comes as a shock to many and with the new regs... many more will soon be shocked.

The city owns the mains, the property owner is responsible for connecting to the main wherever that is (Subject to some Distance Restrictions) and this includes excavation, road repair, etc..

The Sanitation District is responsible for Waste Treatment.

Had a lateral at a commercial property with the main under a State Highway... talk about red-tape and cost! Also the concrete highway bed had to be restored plus the blacktop... City, Sanitation, County and State Inspectors all watching a couple of guys with shovels and a Backhoe...

Unfortunately, this is very common here... we pay a lot for services through fees and taxes and are still on the hook...

Way off topic... property owners are responsible for the city sidewalk and curb adjacent to their property... so if someone trips on a city sidewalk pushed up by a city tree... the property owner is on the hook for liability and the cost to repair the sidewalk even though the property line is often 5 feet from the sidewalk.

The older I get, the more I appreciate county living... much more straightforward... property owners are responsible for more, but they are not under the illusion paying hundreds or thousands of dollars each year will take them off the hook... as city dwellers falsely believe.